An "official" stats list for spells?

[Zombu]

If there is one thing I noticed, it's the wiki is bordering on useless. So much stuff is missing, and the little that is there is missing valuable information. Items with no drop location, no details as to what the effect does, completely empty zone lists, half completed quests, etc. But that's a failing of the community who doesn't contribute. It would be stupid for Wiz to spell out in plain English where everything drops, its stats, its rarity, etc. Kind of takes away from the mystique of exploring, so that's why there is no Encyclopedia Wiztanica.

What about spells, though? There is no mystery to that. You don't learn that your lifetap does 12 damage through a 12 part quest, you learn it by casting it.

Or do you?

What I'd like is a flat out technical detail of what each spell does. I ask this because the spell list on the sodwiki is horrible. I'll give you some examples of what I'm talking about.

- None of the pet spells tell you new abilities your pet may have. My pet can lifetap at level 44, but if you read the site, you'd only know the difference between my pet and a level 1 pet as one costs a Hell of a lot more mana.

- Boil blood changed in damage and duration a few patches ago, yet the old information is still up.

- Necros get lifetap dots, 2 of them: one to heal us and one to heal our pet. The wiki never tells you that.

- What the Hell does this mean? "Haste target by 10%(L1) to 55%(L65)"? Does this mean if I hasted my level 1 pet, it would be +10% speed, but if I had a 65 pet it would be 55%? I see this on tons of spells, and I never understood it. I get this spell at level 39. Why would I be summoning a level 1 pet, and at level 65, why would I be using this spell when I have upgrades?

- This...can't be right. Splurt, a level 51 necro spell, is said to do -5 AGI and -176 damage. Are you trying to tell me that for 237 mana that's the best I can do? If this information is correct, this spell is pathetically underpowered at so little damage and so little debuff, especially when enchanters are getting -30 to multiple stats and -660 damage 2 levels earlier for 37 less mana. I know, I know, Enchanters are debuffers, but I think everyone will admit -30 to multiple stats and more than 3x the damage is a huge discrepancy, class not withstanding.

- It would be nice to have a list of what spell is an upgrade to the previous spell. I.E heat blood > boil blood > ignite blood, since icons aren't constant.

So in some instances, we have a lack of information. In others, we have wrong, out of date information. Sometimes, we have :? "WTF L1-L65?" information. And in some...we just hope the information is wrong.

So considering anyone at any time can cast a spell as long as they meet the right level requirements, can we have an official spell list?

 

[Bonk84]

splut is an inscreasing damage dot, at its last dot tick, it does 179 damage. also why do you care if the spell debuffs or doesnt? some spells wont even land because other debuff spells are on. also debuffing a mob hardly takes away from the damage the mob will deal.

the lvl 1 to lvl 65 is a range. if you were lvl 1, and you casted that spell, it would only haste your pet by 10%. if you were lvl 65, it would haste your pet by 55%.

who cares if the old spell database hasnt been updated yet, it will so chill about that.

as an iksar, i thought our pets didnt ever lifetap. i finally questioned about it at around 56 and the coders added in for iksar pets to lifetap, so i was happy yay. why must you know the exact specifics? any idiot can realize that if its a conjur pet spell, and they have been playing their class for 40 levels, they'll understand that its a more powerful spell than the prior.

 

[Farcy]

Um...not sure if you've seen this site.

http://wr.camongrel.de/

Also, the beauty of the Wiki is anyone can change it. If you know something about a spell, you are more than welcome to contribute the minute is takes to fix it.

Regards

-Farcy

 

[Hasrett]

You know, if you put the time into working on the Wiki that you do into bitching on the forums, you could have made a couple of dozen pages and gotten a lot more information out there.

As for the spell database, the vast majority of it is correct. Just because you don't understand it doesn't mean it's wrong. If parts of it are incorrect, you might want to try *reporting* those parts in particular, rather than yelling about it and demanding a new spell database.

Clearly the information for Splurt is wrong. In fact, if I recall correctly, it starts out at some low amount of damage (1?) and increases exponentially each tick, resulting in a huge damage DoT if it lasts its full duration. That's the kind of thing you could *ask* about or mention as wrong. I guarantee you, though, you're not going to get anything done by being rude and strident about it.

Recent changes to spells will also not be reflected in the spell database because it's -gasp- not quite so recent. Again, you could request that it be updated, rather than throwing a fit. In case you didn't realize it, the GMs and developers have quite a few things that keep them busy in working on this game. Duping bugs and the like are probably just a wee bit higher priority than updating your spell list at every patch. In fact, it's possible it even got overlooked, and someone would have seen a post saying "Hey, looks like the spell database is out of date, as spells X, Y, and Z have been changed" and remembered to go change it.

As for the (L1) to (L65) bit... clearly, as you say, it must be total bullshit because you don't understand it. It certainly couldn't be that a little thought, or perhaps even *asking* what it means would give you any more information. No, no, not at all. The best solution is to bitch about it.

And for the record, that notation means it's a scaling spell, meaning it does a certain amount at level 1 and improves gradually until, at 65, it uses the second value.

 

[Zombu]

splut is an inscreasing damage dot, at its last dot tick, it does 179 damage.

the lvl 1 to lvl 65 is a range. if you were lvl 1, and you casted that spell, it would only haste your pet by 10%. if you were lvl 65, it would haste your pet by 55%.

who cares if the old spell database hasnt been updated yet, it will so chill about that.

as an iksar, i thought our pets didnt ever lifetap. i finally questioned about it at around 56 and the coders added in for iksar pets to lifetap, so i was happy yay. why must you know the exact specifics? any idiot can realize that if its a conjur pet spell, and they have been playing their class for 40 levels, they'll understand that its a more powerful spell than the prior.

See, the spell wiki doesn't say that. it says 11 a tick for -176 damage, and since every other dot uses that as total damage dealt, you wouldn't know that looking at the wiki. You just say "176 for 237 mana? Fuck that".

As for the range, there is no range that goes from level 1 to 65. How the Hell could I cast a spell at level 1 that has a 39 requirement? Seems a little retarded to include a range for a spell you can't cast.

As for the pets, it would be nice to let everyone know what benefits their pet gets. Maybe at level 44, your earth elemental pet doesn't root, it enstills, a longer duration root. At level 44, my necro pet life taps, etc. It would be nice to know all the changes, like when your pet can duel wield.

Um...not sure if you've seen this site.

http://SoD.camongrel.de/

Also, the beauty of the Wiki is anyone can change it. If you know something about a spell, you are more than welcome to contribute the minute is takes to fix it.

Regards

-Farcy

Wikis require some form of administration. I could spend a week updating spells, but that doesn't mean he has to make the changes, or do it in a timely manner.

Plus, what about effects that alter the data? Am I supposed to strip naked to make sure the information I'm submitting isn't altered by damage increasing effects?

You know, if you put the time into working on the Wiki that you do into bitching on the forums, you could have made a couple of dozen pages and gotten a lot more information out there.

As for the spell database, the vast majority of it is correct. Just because you don't understand it doesn't mean it's wrong. If parts of it are incorrect, you might want to try *reporting* those parts in particular, rather than yelling about it and demanding a new spell database.

Why should I spend all this time contributing to the spell database when a simple database dump could give us all pertinent information? Besides, how am I supposed to know about the spells of other classes? What would take me 6 hours to do for the necro class would take Wiz 5 minutes for all classes, and it would be a Hell of a lot more accurate.

Recent changes to spells will also not be reflected in the spell database because it's -gasp- not quite so recent. Again, you could request that it be updated, rather than throwing a fit. In case you didn't realize it, the GMs and developers have quite a few things that keep them busy in working on this game. Duping bugs and the like are probably just a wee bit higher priority than updating your spell list at every patch. In fact, it's possible it even got overlooked, and someone would have seen a post saying "Hey, looks like the spell database is out of date, as spells X, Y, and Z have been changed" and remembered to go change it.

A changelog is very simple.

"Changed Boil Blood duration from 10 ticks to 5, damage from 29 to 58". One sentence. Please don't make it sound like I'm asking for the world, here.

As for the (L1) to (L65) bit... clearly, as you say, it must be total bullshit because you don't understand it. It certainly couldn't be that a little thought, or perhaps even *asking* what it means would give you any more information. No, no, not at all. The best solution is to bitch about it.

And for the record, that notation means it's a scaling spell, meaning it does a certain amount at level 1 and improves gradually until, at 65, it uses the second value.

In this case you're wrong. Want to know why? Because a level 51 spell doesn't do ANY amount at level 1. It can't be cast at level 1, so it's totally irrelevant to put that information in there in the first place. Wouldn't it make more sense to say "at level 39, this spell does 30% haste and increases up to 55% at level 65"?

Did I not understand it? Yes. Why? Because it makes absolutely no sense to include irrelevant data, like saying "if you were level 1, the wizzie relic nuke would do 500 damage!".

 

[Dadi]

Did I not understand it? Yes. Why? Because it makes absolutely no sense to include irrelevant data, like saying "if you were level 1, the wizzie relic nuke would do 500 damage!".

You don't understand it probably because you don't know anything about programming. The 1 to 65 range in the spell list is there probably becuase that is how the spell damage is coded. Different classes can get the same spell starting at different levels, so a spell isn't coded to do some amount based off of starting at level 20 for example. Level is a variabe in the function whose range can be from 1-65. The spell database is just a dump of this information. If you want it formated differently then get to work.

 

[Bonk84]

wow, splurt costs like what? 5p max? gee, what lvl 51 necro isnt gonna buy all their spells just because they looked at the spell database and see it as a low damage dot? most will buy the spell, test it once to see what it does, then either keep it or put it in the back of their spell book.

also, as Hasrett put it, the spells scale, meaning *IF* see that nice if there, make note of the if, cause if you dont understand the if, you wont get what we are saying. *IF* you are lvl 1, and can cast the spell, it will only haste your pet 10%. OMG! ok, *IF* you are 65, and cast the spell, it will haste 55%. OMG! so if you are inbetween, just use math, that thing you learned *hopefully* in school, to determine the amount of haste.

no, it would not make more sense, which is easier to work with while scaling? 1 to 65, or 39 to 65?

lastly, you need to understand that when you cast a pet, you are only casting the spell to create the pet, not what pet abilities are imbued to that level pet. thats like casting a dd, and it killing the mob, so should all dd's add in (could potentially kill monsters)? therefore, if you did a spell database dump, it STILL wouldnt include that information on pets.

 

[Farcy]

Am I supposed to strip naked

Let me assure you, no one wants that.

I've entered information into the wiki and it's immediately changed. Plus even if an admin has to look it over, if your information is good, why not submit it?

-Farcy

 

[zodium]

Why should I spend all this time contributing to the spell database when a simple database dump could give us all pertinent information? Besides, how am I supposed to know about the spells of other classes? What would take me 6 hours to do for the necro class would take Wiz 5 minutes for all classes, and it would be a Hell of a lot more accurate.

Wow, you're a real faggot, you know that? Make your own fucking site. We will not be giving you a "database dump". The spell list is made and maintained by a player who was made a staffer after he created it. The fact that it exists is solely because he chooses to keep it up and if he at any point should choose to take it down, well, you'll be out a spell list.

If you want information that is easily available, you go out there and find it. How would you find information on other classes? You ask people who play those classes, or you start a character in that class and level it up. Don't like it? Have a cookie and wipe away the tears.

Locked.