Adepts - Revisiting the 72 hour respawn

JarL

Dalayan Adventurer
This is simply a proposal and, while I expect it to meet mixed responses, I do hope that it leads somewhere beneficial for the lower level crowd. Currently SoD is extremely top heavy and breaking into the raid content whether it be guilds, pickup raids, or grinding AA's can be very daunting. Secondly, it is no secret that donations are low and I am willing to bet that a majority of donations are provided by the long-time playerbase. So how can you increase the longevity of the game for new players? Remove some of the early bottlenecks in the game that are placed on adepts.

I've been playing SoD (off-and-on) for 3 years now. I enjoy playing a wide variety of classes and have 11 total characters accrued over that time (only 3 of which are 65). The rest are sitting in the 55-57 range and were idled there specifically for the Traek/Pounder and later Nalia farming. As such I've interacted with a large number of new players and often times these players don't finish the grind to 65 or shortly after 65 lose interest. What I am proposing will not directly effect me, I have my 65+ toons that I enjoy playing, but I would like to see something to extend the life of the game for new players.



Current Trend: 90% of adepts are skipped from 1-55 and at 55 (or 57) players become discouraged after spending a few weeks trying to get into adept raids. Ultimately they unlock and start grinding to 65. However the 60+ content is much less forgiving and it is equally easy to become discouraged as a brand new player trying to reach 65 when you only know a handful of people and are extremely limited by your gear. Even at 65 you are now expected to have a good chunk of AA's and gear to get accepted into PuG's or groups.

Proposal: Reduce adept respawns to 24 or 36 hours (36 hours would help stagger the kill rate) from 72 hours AND allow the 57 adepts to drop Ancient spells. Yes, this is not a new idea, but I really feel that it needs to be revisted. Ultimately it will help streamline the game for new players and increase the likelihood that they continue playing past the adept phase. A few years ago the 72 hour respawn made a lot of sense. The gear dropped by Traek and Pounders was fairly competitive and offered a way of starting to gear up for raids. Currently the gear is vastly out performed by Ikisih droppables, under performs compared to tmap loot, and most raid guilds have progressed well into the T6-T9 range so adept loot will NOT help you there. Idling at 55 or 57 is also very detrimental to your characters progress as the areas to grind AA's are very limited. Ultimately the 72 hour bottleneck makes the game less enjoyable and poses an unnecessary limit to the progress of a new player.

[color=l66FFFF]Pros:[/color] New players will have more opportunities to enjoy the possibility of doing adepts starting as early as level 1. Adept gear is primarily useful for leveling and, as such, should be focused on that. EVERYONE enjoys getting new gear fun gear! A 72 hour respawn absolutely punishes anyone who wants to kill an adept a few times. It is very feasible to gain 5-10+ levels in one day, but locking your exp just to kill one adept twice sets you back immensely. At 55-57 more players will have access to Traek/Pounders and ultimately the increased gear rate will make the leveling process to 65+ much easier on them. Entry level 65 content will not feel quite so daunting which will extend the life of the game for new players. As I already stated I have seen a lot of people quit at or right before reaching 65. It is not fun to stagnant character progression for a month (or more) only to then get frustrated even further after you unlock. Allowing Ancient spells to drop will add some extra incentive and a new way of preparing characters for raid content.

Cons: None that will actually impact the game in a negative way. Adept raids are inherently fun for new players and until 55 most players don't even attempt one. This is mostly due to the long respawn discouraging players from even checking if the mob is up, much less killing it more than once. The gear isn't comparable at any stage as I've already stated and the only objections that I foresee are from the elitist playerbase that will state "since I had it hard then everyone should have it hard".

Secondary Impacts: This will have some potential positive side-effects: increased player base (however small) at level 65, a more enthusiastic leveling process with greater access to adepts, less time spent idling characters, and raid guilds will will eventually have more people to draw from. From the devs standpoint anything that can increase your playerbase has the potential to increase your donations. Increased donations could also mean some extra time spent on other issues or developing new and exciting content for the high end crowd. In the end, everyone has the chance to come out on top.


TL;DR Reduce adepts to a 24 or 36 respawn, give the 57 adepts a chance to drop Ancients, and as a result you will increase the enjoyment of the game for newer players which translates into better retention of players. Ultimately leading to a larger playerbase, more players for guilds to draw upon, and an increased likelihood of new donators (which are currently low).
 
Current Trend: 90% of adepts are skipped from 1-55 and at 55 (or 57) players become discouraged after spending a few weeks trying to get into adept raids. Ultimately they unlock and start grinding to 65. However the 60+ content is much less forgiving and it is equally easy to become discouraged as a brand new player trying to reach 65 when you only know a handful of people and are extremely limited by your gear. Even at 65 you are now expected to have a good chunk of AA's and gear to get accepted into PuG's or groups.

In my opinion the problem with adepts 1-55 has nothing to do with spawn time but everything with the loot they drop showing it's age in a market where you can easily buy much superior items (a few clickies excluded)

TL;DR Reduce adepts to a 24 or 36 respawn, give the 57 adepts a chance to drop Ancients, and as a result you will increase the enjoyment of the game for newer players which translates into better retention of players. Ultimately leading to a larger playerbase, more players for guilds to draw upon, and an increased likelihood of new donators (which are currently low).

There is zero reason to give the 55 and 57 adepts ancients and as far as the spawn time being lowered it would just be those same players doing it more frequently. What I would really love to see is something to weaken this awful adept alt and twink culture where people lock themselves at 55 or 57 for a year.
 
Drop spawn time: yes, why not
Though I would not make the spawn time less than 48 hours, imo. Maybe some non-regulars will get in for the 55 adepts then.
Give ancients: no
I see little reason to give a level 55 a level 60 spell chance.

That being said, I have seen many people make (and twink) alts purely to hit all the adepts they missed out on while leveling their main toon up. Just to exp them. I am one of those people, even. Some of the loot, however, is showing its age compared to what can be acquired on the open market now, and relatively cheaply. Perhaps re-visiting their drops should be considered, instead of the drastic spawn drop.
 
I agree with everything suggested in this post.

I also agree with gerick that adept loot is in some serious need of re-balancing.
 
In my opinion the problem with adepts 1-55 has nothing to do with spawn time but everything with the loot they drop showing it's age in a market where you can easily buy much superior items (a few clickies excluded)

I agree with this. The main problem is that adept loot isn't very good, and not the spawn times. The loot not being very good is more so a pre-55 adept problem then a post. I am all for making the adept loot better all around however.

The 57 adepts dropping Ancient spells isn't a good idea. If anything this would make more people not want to level to 65 (the main problem you seem to want to fix) until they get both of their Ancient spells.
 
instead of focusing on the 55-57 adepts why couldn't you rework the loot from 1-57, it's already been pointed out but anyone making a new character now won't even have a use for much of the adept loot that they could get the whole way up, there's cheap-ish BoEs for most slots that are better than the no drop stuff anyways

lower respawns would be neat too though.

as far as ancients.. it does seem odd to get level 60 spells from 57s.. so how about some level 60 adepts?
 
Level 60 adepts would be cool too, but all things considered for the ancient drops I would say the 55-57 adepts are harder than some of the other mobs that drop ancients such as dn named dragons or old dfs nameds.
 
What is wrong with a level 55 character having a chance at a 60 spell? Honestly! I can buy every other 60+ spells at any level assuming I have the platinum for it - think about that for a moment. Letting Traek/Pounders drop ancients would be a simple way of helping to streamline and ease new players into the 65+ content. By no means am I suggesting a 100% drop rate, but ultimately SoD needs to start looking at how it can help new players enjoy the game and not feel so overwhelmed.

3 years ago (prior to tomes being introduced) 500 AA's was top notch and having 100-200 AA's was considered really good. Now, top notch is full AA's, full tomes, and multiple ikisith tomes COMPLETED. How do you expect a new player to react to that kind of mountain being placed in front of them.

Ideally I would suggest all sorts of new 6 man content, tmaps dropping quest pieces that you can combine an X amount to create an item to spawn a 6-12 man boss (65 adepts!), and ways to improve the rate at which a player can progress after initially reaching 65. But I'm not, I am simply suggesting a simple fix.

You want more donations? Improve your player retention by utilizing existing content to give the up-and-coming players something to look forward to at 65. The gear doesn't have to be amazing, but this server is so top heavy at the moment that fresh 65's are more likely to quit than trodge through 1000's of AA's. There is no need to remain elitist about leveling and character progression content. Anything that can improve and expand your community should be welcomed, especially when it is taking advantage of content that is already implemented.
 
Last edited:
You aren't new here, you know how these things work.

I mean you even proposed an idea I didn't hate, and yet you gotta mess it up with comments like this.

Why exactly does that comment bother you? Has it not been stated many times (by devs) that the reason that there is a lack of new 6 man and entry level 65 content is that the primary donators exist in the top echelon? So, logically, the best way to increase donations is to make adjustments at lower tiers. If my comment about donations is that ignorant, ignore it, and focus on the idea rather than the presentation. Come on, over the last week I've seen multiple server wide messages about how low donations have fallen and requesting that players consider donating (even small amounts) to help out. So again, I'm not sure why my comment is so off beat to you. Its primary intent is to get the devs attention since donations seems like an important current topic.
 
Last edited:
Why does it bother me? Well...

This happens EVERY YEAR. Since before either of us started playing, and will likely continue until the last dev or player gets sick of this server and leaves.

Every summer, there is an influx of new players, and an exodus of old players. Donations drop all around. By fall, some of the old players return, and some of the new players quit. General equilibrium is maintained, but the donations haven't quite yet. The built up money from the first quarter of the year begins to dwindle, so we put out a call for more donations. We get a nice out pouring which sees us through til next summer. The cycle then repeats.

A cursory glance at the donation list, doesn't show any correlation between tier and money given. And most important we do NOT make decisions about content based on donations. Where in the world did you ever read such a thing?! Let me squelch that one right now.

The lack of 6 man encounters is because 6 man encounters are as a rule, unfair towards certain classes. The lack of entry 65 content is due to most people skipping it.

So no. I don't appreciate attempts at being strong armed into content change with the misguided idea that it will somehow improve donations. People donate because they enjoy the game and (more important) HAVE money to donate. People stop donating primarily because they can no longer afford too or they quit the game. Will adept changes help either of those? No, at least not measurably. Will they make the game better? Maybe. But if you don't think your idea is strong enough to stand without throwing in 'people will donate more!' than I wouldn't suggest bringing it up.
 
No one is strong arming you into anything, I think the main issue is that you are taking my statement out of context. The idea is a splash in the bucket. I could list many more simple and reasonable ideas utilizing current content, but I would rather start with one idea. As I said, I would not have included anything about "donations" had it not been the server MOTD and a point of discussion a few times in /ooc for the past week or so. But as I said, if it bothers you then ignore it. It really has no impact on the idea itself. Now, if this idea is warmly received and the devs express further interest in improving lower level content then I'd gladly take the time to put all of concerns and ideas on paper. But for now, I'm starting small.
 
/facepalm

Thank you for your time and for reminding me why I have never chosen to donate. I find it strikingly odd that you are offended by something that the devs and admins have been broadcasting on the servers for the past week. Sort of like a parent cursing around his children and then getting mad at them when they start using the same words. Cheers.
 
Now that we're past that, my thoughts.

The logs over the last seven days show that not even the choice adepts with good clickys haven't been killed, aside from the 55-57 ones. It's wouldn't appear that respawn time is the big stopping point. Checking on snowskin in particular, since June, I can only confirm 6 kills.

Thus I don't think dropping the spawn rate of adepts below 55 will make much of a difference. The reason people are doing the 55 block, I think, is because of the 'lock culture' mentioned before. I don't personally see anything wrong with this. If people have fun doing that more power to them.

Why do they lock there? Is it because the loot off of them is useful going forward? Is it just a mini game? Are the fights that fun? I don't know but would certainly like too.

Loot on the lower ones could probably use a look at. But more so the droppables out of Ikisith probably need a looking at >_<.
 
/facepalm

Thank you for your time and for reminding me why I have never chosen to donate. I find it strikingly odd that you are offended by something that the devs and admins have been broadcasting on the servers for the past week. Sort of like a parent cursing around his children and then getting mad at them when they start using the same words. Cheers.

I assume you realize that in your analogy you are the child who does not understand the things the adults are saying, yet repeats them anyways?
 
Locking at lv55 or 57 means that they can get both General and Archtype AA's which they are going to have to get later on anyway. Doing that pre-51 just means they are "wasting" xp for no reason, and like was mentioned before you can easily get 5-10 levels a day if you find a nice group. Thats a pretty big hit to take for a piece of gear that you can replace easily with droppable/tradecrafted gear once you hit 65 and can farm pp. Thats also assuming things like a) people know about them b) can create/join a raid c) item drops and )d they win it.

Perhaps something could be done for characters who lock pre-51 to do with their xp so it goes towards something? They could gain "overflow" XP which they'd receive once they unlocked but it would be capped at 2-3 levels gained max or something.
Adept raid quests? Something similar to the PoLore artifacts?
 
Last edited:
Now that we're past that, my thoughts.

The reason people are doing the 55 block, I think, is because of the 'lock culture' mentioned before. I don't personally see anything wrong with this. If people have fun doing that more power to them.

Why do they lock there? Is it because the loot off of them is useful going forward? Is it just a mini game? Are the fights that fun? I don't know but would certainly like too.

One good example of these kind of people was Dragov who stuck to lvl 55 with his cleric and boxed lasanth and adept for lord knows how long. He just enjoyed the level, content was easier at that particular stage. He worked on AAs, gear, etc... tradeskills even. He just mentioned to me in our conversations that the jump from 55 to 65 was so large difficulty speaking, he would rather stay 55 until he either maxes what he can and acquires gear to be valuable at 65, or quits
 
Last edited:
But more so the droppables out of Ikisith probably need a looking at >_<.

I agree big time with you here Cyz. I realize that it is extremely difficult to come out with an expansion while still trying to keep older content relevant (You guys have done a pretty awesome job as I can see it), however, I have found with all the new interesting droppable Ikisith, combined with some Imp Hide, Shadow Silk, Deepmetal armour, and a half decent charm (i.e Barrier) you can pretty much buy your way into a tier4 -tier5 guild, allowing you to skip the entry level raid game.

The thing is, I don't really see a way around this, as there has to be incentive for that newer 60-65 group to go to Ikisith and get the dropable gear that they will actually use. So nerfing the gear too much would basically drop the incentive for those lower groups to even attempt stuff.
 
Back
Top Bottom