About the huge benefit of shields on knights

Manguadi

Manguadi

Dalayan Beginner
The benefits are definitely relative and should also be thought of in that way. I mean, there are lots of other factors that go into evaluating tanks, but when I did the parses for the 2hs changes (and some 1hs for ringo) on woldaff and ringo these were the defensive numbers:

Woldaff using /s 12 (whoops not 15) and Danrak
Avg hit: 128
Dodge %: 10.6
Parry %: 10.4
Riposte %: 8.2
Total %: 29.2

Ringo w/ shield using /s 3 and Varisath and Nautilus
Avg hit: 138
Dodge %: 7.4
Parry %: 8.3 (my very old parses of /s 4 amped this up to just under 20% just for trivia)
Block %: 5
Riposte %: 6.1
Total %: 26.8

note: woldaff has 24 damage reduction and ringo has 35 in these parses

Massive benefit to shields for knights aside, 1h have always done good dps because even in spite of those shields, warriors win out in highly significant ways. Knights have always been expected to do better dps and have more utility to make up for the dominance of warriors in tanking.
 
Last edited:
Thanks for Running Numbers
5% is max block ?
In comparison is ringo better geared then Woldoff?
 
I'll try it again some time soon. The 5% came from two parses one with 4.7 block and one with 5.3
 
Pouring through old logs and reparsing the above parses show that the miss rate is related to the block chance, and possibly to a lesser extent the dodge, parry, and riposte rates as well. Block rates range reliably from 5% to as high as 12% on some mobs. A miss is either a hit that gets mitigated to 0, or the mob simply missing. The higher the miss rate, the lower the block, the lower the miss rate, the higher the block.
 
Here's a few ringo tanking scenarios including the number of blocks, dodges, ripostes, parries, and misses.

High Chieftan Farhanniath (394 seconds)

859 attacks
156 misses 18.2%
47 dodges 5.5%
75 parries 8.7%
101 blocks 11.8%
44 ripostes 5.1%

Poldar, Priest of Enthann (767 seconds)

2509 attacks
642 misses 25.6%
143 dodges 5.7%
208 parries 8.3%
132 blocks 5.3%
145 ripostes 5.8%

Gongoerth (616 seconds)

1211 attacks
148 misses 12.2%
73 dodges 6%
249 parries (prenerf) 20.6%
127 blocks 10.5%
70 ripostes 5.8%

The Ice Spinner (279 seconds)

1419 attacks
299 misses 21%
80 dodges 5.6%
124 parries 8.7%
53 blocks 3.7%
92 ripostes 6.5%

The number of blocks on high miss mobs drops by a ton, while the number of dodges, parries, and ripostes are stable.

Zaela said:
In any case, you'd be better off looking for the number of blocks out of all attacks that aren't "misses" to get a better idea of shield effectiveness. The rate of blocking should be relatively stable ... out of all attacks that actually have the potential to be blocked.
Click to expand...

This still doesn't explain why parry, dodge, and riposte would be unchanged, which these parses seem to be showing. I mean order really does matter here. Maybe that order can be cleaned up to have all checks happen simultaneously.
 
Last edited:
Ringo with /s 3 + 1783 ac (7 block 20 parry)
attempts: 6189 (20 minutes)
miss: 1553 25.1%
defendable: 4636
dodge: 363 5.9% (7.8% of defendable)
parry: 474 7.6% (10.2% of defendable)
block: 307 5% (6.6% of defendable)
riposte: 350 5.7% (7.5% of defendable)
total avoidance: 49.2%
avg hit: 142

Ringo with /s 2 + 1587 ac (7 block 20 parry)
attempts: 6054 (20 minutes)
miss: 567 7.7%
defendable: 5487
dodge: 417 6.9% (7.6% of defendable)
parry: 636 10.5% (11.6% of defendable)
block: 370 6.1% (6.7% of defendable)
riposte: 386 6.4% (7% of defendable)
total avoidance: 39.2%
avg hit: 147

for fun, i decided to compare this to woldaff using
/s 3 + 1732 ac w/ farhag shield (7 dodge 5 riposte 20 parry)
attempts: 6526 (20 minutes)
defendable: 4986
miss: 1540 23.6%
dodge: 414 6.3% (8.3% of defendable)
parry: 583 8.9% (11.7% of defendable)
block: 404 6.2% (8.1% of defendable)
riposte: 390 6% (7.8% of defendable)
total avoidance: 51%
avg hit: 145

It looks like your insight about the miss % and the defendable blows thing is correct, but I wonder if the block thing is an artifact of randomness or something weird. Not only does ringo use a significantly better shield, but he has a small block mod as well.
 
Although this looks congruent with s2 = -10% avoidance and s3 = +10% avoidance from s1, its interesting that it is primarily accounted for in pure miss/hit and not in the defendables avoidance.

This brings up the question, does this favor mitigation tanks (as mitigation tanks get more chances to avoid hits through defensive abilities)?
 
Titanas said:
In comparison is ringo better geared then Woldoff?
Click to expand...

Significantly.

If Ringo were a warrior, with a shield in, his hp would be over 10k.


Fomelo also doesn't show some of the other benefits Ringo has over Woldaff in terms of gear/items.
 
Last edited:
The only reason I showed that woldaff parse was to show that I found a large difference between ringo's block rate and woldaff's block rate.
 
Would be interesting to see a parse w/ shield and w/o shield to see the comparison.

Comparing a knight to a warrior is good, but comparing the dps that a knight takes w/ and w/o a shield in addition to that is better.
 
Last edited:
A warrior in /s 3 should be barely better than a knight, and only because they have higher defensive caps. It's amazing that woldaff was as close as he was to ringo. Stop freaking out about how close they were.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom