A Look Into The Mid-Late Game Shaman

[null1fy]

The Shaman
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It is my hope that through this thread the current status of shaman may be evaluated for favor or opposition of adjustment. I'd also like to request we keep discussion and debate civil and to try to best discuss with little to no drama or rudeness. With your assistance, we can create this thread to provide testimony as to the 'Shaman State of Affairs'. Let's begin with what I believe a shaman new to Shards of Dalaya might expect.

We shaman eat ourselves because we like it
​

Shaman in Shards of Dalaya are a fairly accurate representation of the Luclin-era shaman of EverQuest proper. With notable few exceptions introduced with Ikisith, one may expect to find all of the basic form and function of the aforementioned shaman from live. As the game evolved and Ikisith introduced, there also was introduced new spells and abilities for shaman to add to their arsenal. In this new age of Shards of Delaya, with those new spells and abilities to select from the shaman's arsenal, he or she must discern when to properly apply those talents (if ever) on the battlefield.

Who are you and why should I listen to you?
​

I've been playing Shards of Dalaya, off and on, since about 2009 and before that I had wasted far too many years on EverQuest live since it's release in 1999. I've seen a fair bit of this game - everything from level 1 content to Tier 12. I'll be the first to admit I've still got some distance to cover to the very 'end' but I feel as though I have a fair grasp on my class and the game. And if I do have any ill-conceived notions or misconceptions, I'll gladly welcome their correction.

That said, Shaman are one of the few classes in all of EverQuest that I have had a long time love for. They're kind of the maverick jack-of-all-trades-master-of-none class in that you may do just about everything you could wish for in EverQuest, with them. I think Shards of Dalaya has amplified their potential and further, I think that with a small amount of consideration and refocus they can reach that 'just right' level of completeness.

Let's start by listing what spells a shaman may collect to add to their arsenal once they've started the raid game:

Poisons and diseases and remedies, oh my!
​

The Ancient Spells

Spoiler: Ancient Spells

Ancient: Gift of Celerity
Mana cost: 210
Cast time: 8 seconds (augmentable)
Recharge time: Instant
Duration 320 ticks (1 hour, 32 minutes; augmentable)
Range: 100
AE radius: 50
Target type: Group
Effects (from parser):
Slot 1: Increase Attack Speed by 50%

Ancient: Slumber of the Beast
Mana cost: 100
Cast time: 6 seconds (augmentable!)
Recharge time: Instant
Duration: 4 ticks (24 seconds; not augmentable)
Target type: Self
Effects (from parser):
Slot 1: Heal Over Time by 350 per tick
Slot 2: Increase Armor Class by 13
Slot 3: Decrease Movement by 100%
Slot 4: Increase All Resists by 25
Slot 11: Decrease Attack Speed by 80%

My take on Gift of Celerity:

I am honestly entirely underwhelmed. In the current game it is surpassed handily by Empower or Glory of Enthann, Enchanter haste spells, which have all larger radius, duration and haste amounts. I would not argue the superiority of the Enchanter line of spells, but I would see no harm in increasing the haste to 60% while also increasing the duration and range. Swift Like The Wind is easily extended through our AAs to over two hours and so upgrading this spell would be merely convenience and not power imbalance.

My take on Slumber of the Beast:

This spell is an all-star. It is testimony of early game design genius carrying through to modern day. It still holds a candle in complementing its best friend, 'Cannibalization'. The fact that your AA shorten the spell cast time to 3 seconds is incredible. My only qualm is in the 100% movement speed reduction. I think that the efficacy and overall power of the spell would be better aligned with 50-65% movement speed reduction so that the shaman is at least allowed to walk a bit more akin to our Runic 1. With so many later game fights contingent on movement and positioning, I can understand the risk-reward design for choosing to use Slumber but it feels like an unfair punishment to be as crippled as you currently are when it is cast. That said, if no change were to ever take place, I would still use this spell 10 times out of 10.

The Relic Spells

Spoiler: Relic Spells

Relic: Ancestral Focus
Mana cost: 500
Cast time: 8 seconds (augmentable)
Recharge time: Instant
Duration: 1800 ticks (3 hours; augmentable)
Range: 100
AE Radius: 100
Target type: Group
Effects (from parser):
Slot 1: Increase Max Hit Points by 455
Slot 2: Increase Current Hit Points by 455
Slot 3: Increase CHA by 70
Slot 4: Increase ATK by 35
Slot 5: Forced Spell Stacking Slot 1: Max Hit Points
Slot 6: Forced Spell Stacking Slot 1: CHA

Relic: Essence of Tarhansar
Mana cost: 300
Cast time: 4 seconds (augmentable)
Recharge time: Instant
Duration: 1200 ticks (2 hours; augmentable)
Range: 100
AE Radius: 100
Target type: Group
Effects (from parser):
Slot 1: Increase STA by 80
Slot 3: Forced Spell Stacking Slot 1: STR
Slot 4: Increase STR by 80
Slot 8: Ultravision
Slot 10: Waterbreathing

Relic: Essence of the Wild
Mana cost: 300
Cast time: 4 seconds (augmentable)
Recharge time: Instant
Duration: 1200 ticks (2 hours; augmentable)
Range: 100
AE Radius: 100
Target type: Group
Effects (from parser):
Slot 1: Increase AGI by 80
Slot 2: Forced Spell Stacking Slot 1: DEX
Slot 3: Increase DEX by 80
Slot 9: See Invisible
Slot 10: Increase Hit Points by 8 per tick

Relic: Scourge of Life
Mana cost: 500
Cast time: 3.5 seconds (augmentable)
Recharge time: Instant
Duration: 4 ticks (24 seconds)
Range: 200
Target type: Single
Effects (from parser):
Slot 1: Increase Poison Counter by 15
Slot 2: Decrease Current Hit Points by 275
Slot 3: Decrease Hit Points by 550 per tick

Relic: Woundbane
Mana cost: 285
Cast time: 3.75 seconds (augmentable)
Recharge time: Instant
Range: 100
Target type: Single
Effects (from parser):
Slot 1: Increase Hit Points by 1650

My take on Ancestral Focus:

I don't have much to say. The spell is still very good and it actually is used in raids over Ward of Nature once priests and casters have enough worn flowing thought. Those who need it will take the buff slot for it and those who don't, aren't missing out.

My take on Essence of Tarhansar and Essence of the Wild:

Essence of Tarhansar, and its sister spell Essence of the Wild, are the crux of the shaman's talisman line of spells which are ultimately statistic buffs increasing stamina and strength, and agility and dexterity for the spells, respectively. The spells have an adverse scaling effect: as player worn gear becomes more powerful and AA/tomes with statistic bonuses more plentiful, the statistics provided by the buffs worsen. By late tier 10 to tier 11, the statistics provide a negligible amount (in the margin of 30 points or less) to a player's character where, at that point, raw hitpoints obtained by item effects (such as combine buff) or other utility spells beat the statistic bonuses. They do however, provide added utility in the addition of ultravision, waterbreathing provded by EoT as well as see invisible and 8 hp/tick on EotW. EoT's bonuses is perhaps the strongest with the inclusion of waterbreathing where there are encounters that have dispell effects and having raid-wide waterbreathing has its uses. Ultimately, that is about as far as the usefulness of the spells amount to and they are in dire need of a (minor) face lift. Further discussion follows later in the thread.

My take on Scourge of Life:

The last in the line of shaman's poison affliction spells, this is by far the most powerful. The spell has a -25 resist adjust which is very noticeable and scales well into the endgame with the addition of AA, Glyphs, worn poison modifiers and affliction enhancement through tomes and worn items.

My take on Woundbane:

-The- shaman heal spell. Every other heal (which there are not many usable in the shaman's arsenal) pales by comparison in either efficacy or practicality. With a cast time of a little over 3 seconds it is the heal a shaman will cast 90% of the time. I have the suspicion that Chloroschock has the potential to beat-out Woundbane with the right combination of items and tomes but I think there may be 3 to 5 shaman in the entire game that can achieve this possibility. And, further, I just don't have the first-hand experience or data to show for it. On point: the spell is solid and needs no consideration for revision.

The Archaic Spell

Spoiler: Archaic Spell

Archaic: Spirit Sleep
Mana cost: 265
Cast time: 3 seconds (augmentable)
Recharge time: Instant
Duration: 55 Ticks (6 minutes, 30 seconds)
Range: 200
Target type: Single
Effects (from parser):
Slot 2: Decrease Attack Speed by 55%
Slot 3: Increase Disease Counter by 20

My take on Spirit Sleep:

Slow is a weird thing to consider and I have really wanted to spend some time analyzing parses in depth to see how effective attack speed reduction scales later in the game. As tiers progress, the speed in which monsters attack seem less devastating opposed to the quantity in which they do it. For example: Mistress Saitha may, and very well can, attack the tank 3 to 4 times for upwards of 6000 each hit in quick succession. The frequency of her attacking is mitigated by slowing her attack speed however, the round (her hitting the tank three to four times) is never mitigated by the slow - at least that is what I believe to be the case since a triple attack or quad attack is an innate proc/trigger. Essentially, what I'm getting at, is that the 10-20% a shaman has over other classes in slowing probably has marginally slim to no difference the harder and higher tier encounters become. After a certain break point (I'd imagine 40% and higher) I would wager all slows work to similar effect in most encounters that last less than 7 to 8 minutes.

Additionally, the fact that this spell is an archaic lends to an awkward dilemma of the shaman class. Until the archaic is completed, there are few other spells to use to slow encounters with, which either have terrible cast times and/or resist types. The irony is that shaman are very much hobbled in slowing efficiency and time management prior to obtaining the spell when slows have higher effect in the lower tiers.

Ultimately the shaman archaic slow really seems to only have others beat because of how "un-resistable" it is and how fast you may cast it and not by the percent in which it slows.

The Runic Spells

Spoiler: Runic Spells

Runic: Spiritual Attuning
Mana cost: 950
Cast time: 6.6 seconds (augmentable)
Recharge time: Instant
Duration: 4 Ticks (24 seconds)
Range: 100
AE radius: 60
Target type: Group
Effects (from parser):
Slot 1: Heal Over Time by 500 per tick
Slot 3: Decrease Movement by 50%
Slot 11: Decrease Attack Speed by 20%

Runic: Spirit Graft
Mana cost: 30
Cast time: 1 second
Recharge time: Instant
Duration: Instant
Range: 90
Target type: Single
Auto Cast: Spirit Graft Recourse
Effects (from parser):
Slot 1: Increase Hit Pints by 1500
Slot 1 (on shaman): Decrease Hit Pints by 2500

My take on Runic: Spiritual Attuning:

A group heal! The long-time gripe that we shaman had was that there were no group heals available to the class. With the implementation of Ikisith runic spells, shaman now are provided just that - albeit a very neutered version of one. The caveat is that no character with any desire to output physical damage would want to be on the receiving end of a 20% slow for 24 seconds. Further, because the spell belongs to the Torpor line of spells, there is also a 50% movement reduction (far superior to 100% on our Ancient). In total, what is left after the drawbacks is a very, very nice caster group heal over time spell (that may either be cast into the group, or cast within the group with the shaman in it - which isn't always the case).

Many have challenged the development staff for years to provide shaman with a zero-drawback group heal, but it just isn't a functionality that they intend to design for us. This spell is a 'fair' work-around that has its applications and, for that reason, I don't intend to bite the hand that feeds.

My take on Runic: Spirit Graft:

Where to begin: The design over-redundancy? A 2500 self-nuke? Its incredibly narrow window for use? A 2500 self-nuke? That it is a poor successor to Chloroshock that fails to replace the spell and instead crowds the spell gem bar further? ... Did I mention it does 2500 un-resistable damage to the shaman?

With the addition of Spiritual Attuning and the Murk spell River Keeper, Spirit Graft truly failed as the pièce de résistance to the Ikisith adventure. As far as I can tell, no playing Shaman has gladly welcomed it and further no one now has a huge desire to obtain it for any other reason than to have it for completion and testing it out. A few have vouched that it serves useful when two-box farming, but is that really it? Shouldn't the culmination of months of work and effort pay out a little better?

Further the Blood Ritual tome really just obsoletes this spell by every measure. Chloroshock becomes a 1250 point heal for 20 to 30% of the Shaman's hitpoints by rank 4, and while Spirit Graft yields better results in mana cost, base heal amount and (just barely) self-inflicted damage, Blood Ritual allows for any spell - both offensive and healing - to be cast through it, providing much higher utility. And ultimately, those with Blood Ritual amount the stance as nothing more than an emergency macro to quickly, and very substantially, heal a party member. But at least the tome lends itself to variable use whereas Blood Ritual can never be anything else other than an emergency heal at a very, very high cost.

Other Spells

Spoiler: Other Spells

Spell: Form of the River Keeper
Mana cost: 135
Cast time: 6 seconds (augmentable)
Recharge time: 12 seconds
Duration: 1440 Ticks (2 hours, 24 minutes)
Range: 0
Target type: Self
Effects (from parser):
Slot 1: Illusion Bear
Slot 2: Increase Hit Points by 5 per tick
Slot 3: Increase WIS by 20
Slot 7: Increase Max Hit Points by 200
Slot 9: Add Weapon Proc: Maul


Spell: Crippling Surge
Mana cost: 435
Cast time: 1 second
Recharge time: Instant
Duration: 50 ticks (5 minutes)
Range: 200
AE radius: 80
Target type: Point Blank AE
Auto Cast: Spirit Graft Recourse
Effects (from parser):
Slot 6: Decrease DEX by 75
Slot 7: Decrease AGI by 85
Slot 8: Decrease STR by 85
Slot 10: Decrease Armor Class by 130

Spell: Purification
Mana cost: 225
Cast time: 6.25 seconds (augmentable)
Recharge time: Instant
Range: 100
AE radius: 100
Target type: Group
Effects (from parser):
Slot 1: Decrease Disease Counter by 10
Slot 2: Decrease Poison Counter by 10

Spell: Acumen of Dar Khura
Mana cost: 210
Cast time: 4 seconds (augmentable)
Recharge time: Instant
Duration: 630 ticks (1 hour, 3 minutes)
Range: 100
AE radius: 60
Target type: Group
Effects (from parser):
Slot 1: See Invisible
Slot 2: Ultravision
Slot 3: Decrease Stamina Loss by 5

My take on Form of the River Keeper:

This spell is incredible and to make it even better there is a tome dedicated to it (Blood Feast), and it rocks! The notable two abilities the illusion adds is 200 flat hitpoints and the weapon proc maul. Maul is 550 base damage that scales with damage increment and with Blood Feast it can cycle a separate proc that places a recourse 1-tick DoT lifetap that heals you the damage dealt. Yes, if you critical the DoT (modified by affliction enhancement, I believe) you are healed for the very same amount. My biggest gripe with the spell is that it has a 12 second recharge time. No other shaman buff has a recharge time placed on it; very peculiar.

My take on Crippling Surge:

This spell feels clunky. Cripples that reduce statistics, exclusively, provide little. The biggest boon to this spell is the armor class reduction, where, is 130 AC even that much of a difference on a raid encounter? I suppose instead we ask, 'For what reason was this spell created?'. Given that it is a PBAoE spell it really implies the spell was developed for farming/grouping. And, if this was the case, a new pet would have been very much more appreciated (especially with the prevalence of pet tomes and shaman AA that affect pets).

*Player Edit* It has been mentioned that I am undervaluing the effect of the spell. It provides noticeably better control to encounters in both healing needed and damage dealt.

My take on Purification:

There are encounters where this spell is absolutely necessary and all shaman will immediately know of which I speak of if they have ever attended them. The only reason I mention invite discussion for this spell is that I believe that it is outdated in the age of Shards of Dalaya we now live in. In a world before Tier 10 where debuffs were placed raid-wide on timers, seldom, the 5-odd seconds it took to cast the spell was fine. Today, where encounters deposit a multitude of separate and varying potency of debuffs on the raid, in its entirety, constantly, the spell would require several shaman constantly casting it to effectively cure. Solution: cut down the cast timer a bit, please? There exist items that exist (Orb of Malignancy, Yehenna's Lodestone) with a 1/3rd of the cast time that are almost as effective.

On Acumen of Dar Khura:

Included for reference. It is the only shaman spell (and perhaps exclusive to shaman?) that has a reduced stamina loss modifier which now benefit melee more than ever.

The road not taken? Please, I'm a mystic and I've seen it all
​

So let's recap: Shaman are pretty good, but could use still a little bit of help. What does the class need, what do the players want, and what can the class practically provide? Here is what has been on my immediate radar for some time:

The first:

If we're not going to get EoT and EotW combined into one buff, let's spruce them up a little bit. Give EoT or EotW the 5 (or maybe 8, or 10!) reduced stamina loss functionality of Acumen. This functionally performs the same as combining EoT and EotW by combining Acumen and one of the statistic buffs. I think that EoT would be best for this because it is a more offensive-oriented buff. On Essence of the Wild, perhaps 5-10% damage reduction could be added to it? It's a more defensive oriented buff, and casters, priests and melee alike would all benefit with something like that.

*Player Edit* Kedrin Made A Post about quality of life revisions and the EoT / EotW topic made it there. His suggestion was to merge the two together (the ideal we all shaman wish for but do not expect). Freeing up a relic slot would allow for a higher level pet that actually survives and could perhaps proc a lower level slow (as I've requested would be VERY useful in xp groups).

The second:

Extend the duration and haste amount of Ancient: Gift of Celerity. I shouldn't have to defend this argument.

The third:

Reconsider the existence of both Blood Ritual and Spirit Graft. The two are non-complementary and one is not needed while the other exists. I would hope that Spirit Graft is chosen to be remade into, really, anything.

*Player Edit* It is not so much Spirit Graft which needs an overhaul, it is rather Blood Ritual that needs to go. Seen HERE you may notice shaman polled entirely dislike the tome.

The fourth:

Revamp Crippling Surge into something like a pet spell, instead. It just isn't a very 'fun' spell and feels like it provides little very impact to an encounter in the same way that River Keeper does. Not everything has to be glitter and gold, but even a little bit of jazzing it up if it has to stay a cripple might encourage us to appreciate it more. And an upgraded pet would be far more useful for grouping and farming than a cripple.

*Player Edit* This spell is probably fine as-is and I was undervaluing it.

This thread is un-bear-able!
​

At this point I suppose I would see how others feel. I assume my view point is in line with most other shaman and this post merits the attention of developers to refocus elements of our class, however, perhaps it is the case that others believe that no change is necessary. I would hope that the former is the case, or at least, a bit of both. I don't think that a video game should be a stagnant experience where character classes stay the same through the evolution of the game. And other classes have received attention from player outcry, maybe we can influence our gaming experience, too!

 

[Tevinter]

As a melee DPS: The 130 AC reduction is pretty a sick boost to melee dps, i agree with the rest of the points though

 

[Pecannius]

Pretty well-constructed analysis.

re 1) I agree with you for the most part, but I think it would be better to just combine the 2 relic buffs into 1. Kedrin's "unoriginal" idea, point 4 from http://forum.shardsofdalaya.com/threads/quality-of-life-list-of-unoriginal-ideas.28896/
re 2) Agreed.
re 3) I agree that Blood Ritual is the epitome of a useless tome and should be re-made but I disagree slightly about R2.

Having not personally used it but seen the numbers on paper, I think it would be incredibly useful. Anyone who has healed as a shaman knows that panic feeling where you get behind on healing the tank and there's nothing you can do about it. Once you get behind as a shaman the only tricks you have are clickies, no "oh crap" spells. The R2 provides something in that nature. Obviously it doesn't replace chloroshock but it still serves a unique roll that would be useful sometimes.

But back to blood ritual, I can go into details if desired about why it is so bad, but I don't feel the need is there because it's generally accepted as unusable in its current state.
Remember that survey Grinkles made about class tomes? Yea... https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1MJW3H5QLD3FvdKOPgnvbidh31VFvgWKCb6AA_NQYjWE/viewanalytics
I mean I understand that not all class tomes are supposed to be awesome like "Tastes like Chicken" but this tome is beyond "situational". It's just garbage.

re 4) What you haven't mentioned about this spell is the amazing kiting potential from this spell. Granted, often times a shaman doing AE kiting isn't the most efficient use of shaman skills, but having the backup option is nice for some fights. Analysis between the best paladin AE blind vs crippling surge:
http://wiki.shardsofdalaya.com/index.php/Spell:_Crippling_Surge vs http://wiki.shardsofdalaya.com/index.php/Spell:_Wave_of_Light
a) Better stat reduction
b) Bigger radius (80 vs 60)
c) Shorter cooldown (0 vs 25 seconds)
d) Shorter cast time(1 vs 1.5 seconds)
e) More mana (435 vs 145)
f) Less resist adjust (-75 vs -25)
g) Agrro: Probably more from the blind?? Not sure though. Crippling surge has some mean aggro.

 

[Daffie]

I'm on my phone but have some thoughts to share:
I haven't raided on the shaman in a while but i always use cripple in groups if we are melee heavy or fighting stuff that smacks the tank down. Maybe I'm dreaming about noticing incoming damage being reduced when cripple is on, but it sure seems that way because the required healing amounts go down.

Shaman healing is really bad for new guys between hitting level 65 and getting the relic heal. I remember thinking, 'what the fuck, I can't keep the tank healed anymore...' this 'gap' should be looked at and smoothed out a bit better.

The pet should have a final upgrade. It is shit after hitting the 65 game. I use it to min max and to be a speed bump when I agro...

 

[Xalsturi]

I'm a shaman starting to get into the stage of the game you're talking about here.

Request 1: I would love to see some sort of combination between the stat buffs or stat buffs and acumen. Yes, they are often clicked during raids by many players which makes me a sad bear. However, this is a long standing issue and such a change has been requested often. It would be nice, but not a big deal if nothing changes.

Request 2: Completely agreed. It's always bugged me to cast an inferior buff on somebody if I had better to offer so I was one of those poor bears casting (and recasting and recasting etc.) SLTW even before they increased the duration and very rarely ever used the ancient haste at all. Increasing haste % on the ancient up to our best haste seems like a no-brainer and not stepping on any other toes or unbalancing anything at all.

Request 3: Agreed. I have neither runic 2 nor my blood ritual tome yet (in that latter case, mainly because I have put 0 effort into getting it), and I'm not really excited about either. Keeping one as is to have an emergency heal in some form seems fine, but I really don't like the redundancy of having both a class tome and our runic 2 be basically the same thing and super situational at that.

Request 4: I actually quite like crippling surge. To be fair, I haven't done any parses to see what kind of difference in dps the stat/ac debuffs make, but I use the spell quite often. I tend to use it as an aggro management tool all the time. The quick cast and fairly high aggro makes it a great 'get the monsters off the squishies!' button considering shaman can often stand a few rounds tanking while the real tank gets things under control. A quick cast ae with fairly high aggro is a nice tool to have in the ol' toolbox. I would not be happy to lose this spell... though I would love another upgrade to our pet (maybe in place of spirit graft?).

All that said, I think shaman have it pretty good overall and I would have no problem staying exactly as is while some other more deserving classes get some tweaks. Even so, I think this is a well thought out post and most of the requests seem very reasonable.

-Draedan-

 

[Daffie]

SLTW even before they increased the duration and very rarely ever used the ancient haste at all. Increasing haste % on the ancient up to our best haste seems like a no-brainer and not stepping on any other toes or unbalancing anything at all.

+1

 

[Moraelintz]

Only have 3 real comments:
1) very good insight and well written post.
2) try using cripple a bit more it is pretty amazing effects an is very useful
3) agree with you about slow especially because mobs mitigate it. Auxing is much more effective.

 

[null1fy]

I am really appreciative of the constructive feedback!

I am probably undervaluing cripple because it is difficult to see, personally, the effects of it. But I am glad to hear other classes have mentioned a noticeable difference. I'll give it a more scrupulous testing!

I'll have a more cautious optimism about Runic 2. Perhaps it has its place, and what really there needs to be changed, is Blood Ritual.

I'll update my post to reflect consensus.

 

[duncandun]

Although my shaman is 65 I don't have a whole lot of comment, as I don't have any of my ancients/runics whatever.

However, the real pet at 65+ is pretty bothersome. I always expected (while leveling up) that Shamans would hold their pet superiority over druids in the endgame, considering we get a pet first and more upgrade and pet specific buffs and what not.

The fact that it isn't so, stinks. We deserve a frog or a frog analogue!

 

[AngryCow]

What about a pet buff spell?

 

[Pecannius]

Although my shaman is 65 I don't have a whole lot of comment, as I don't have any of my ancients/runics whatever.

However, the real pet at 65+ is pretty bothersome. I always expected (while leveling up) that Shamans would hold their pet superiority over druids in the endgame, considering we get a pet first and more upgrade and pet specific buffs and what not.

The fact that it isn't so, stinks. We deserve a frog or a frog analogue!

I agree the shaman pet could use some loving in its current state. But if you're comparing murk spells (where druids get the frog pet), the shaman murk spell is actually very, very good too.

 

[Nebi]

Ok so for those of you who do not know I play a Shaman named Diashan. At the time of me posting this time I am the ONLY shaman with ALL of my class tomes completed. (100% of all 3 of them)

The first: I personally do not agree with having a relic be changed to all of them. While it may be a convenience factor to the melee so they can justify an additional boost over nothing I have never been asked for any stat buffs at the end game. If this was so important people would make space for them. I do believe having them all together would be a great idea for an additional spell or quest or something over relic but i dont agree with it being changed so easily as just getting a relic.

The second: Personally its not a big deal. I'm not the haster. Enchanters are. While i do believe i should be able to haste people but there should be a set back because im literally good at so many things. being anywhere remotely close to an enchanter in my opinion is not good. I do believe where we're at is fine. Increase in time would only serve a purpose of not having to load an enchanter bot if you were running a melee heavy group. Like i stated previously not a big deal.

The third: There is no way to confirm that all of the shamans which submitted their answer (if it was just shamans) have completed the tome. Again being the ONLY person who has completed up to rank 4 I can tell you that there is a place for blood ritual and its a pretty fucking amazing tome. The thing that I do not like about this tome is that it literally will shit on you at level 4. For those of you who do not know the increase in healing and damage does scale but also does the damage done upon the shaman. I really do feel this should be a set number and not percentage based so getting upgrades makes this a little more worth wild to use.

Now having spoken to the person who created this tome he mentioned that this shouldn't be something that basically makes shamans gods. I tend to use blood ritual when there is an oh shit moment and then quickly stance out of it (the change to the stances was done when i mentioned it was not right for me to go into blood ritual and not be able to get out of it quickly. so you can thank me for requesting the change to the stance change cooldown). Another good time to use blood ritual is if you're dotting or if you're using the best spell known to man kind (PLAGUEWIND).

My thoughts on the runic 2 are that its a worthless spell and not worth using at the tier where you acquire it. I hate the idea of this spell so much that I opted out of getting it entirely. Thade and myself once upon a time had suggested changes to the spell but they didnt seem to like where we wanted to go where he envisioned or where i did. I refuse to waste time getting this spell for MY character.


The fourth: The spell is pretty much amazing. if you aren't using it then you're not doing your job

[Kedrin get off my ass because im not quoting correctly.]
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My take on Form of the River Keeper:

This spell is incredible and to make it even better there is a tome dedicated to it (Blood Feast), and it rocks! The notable two abilities the illusion adds is 200 flat hitpoints and the weapon proc maul. Maul is 550 base damage that scales with damage increment and with Blood Feast it can cycle a separate proc that places a recourse 1-tick DoT lifetap that heals you the damage dealt. Yes, if you critical the DoT (modified by affliction enhancement, I believe) you are healed for the very same amount. My biggest gripe with the spell is that it has a 12 second recharge time. No other shaman buff has a recharge time placed on it; very peculiar.
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There should be absolutely 0 complaints about this spell. its absolutely amazing. I do however feel that you're just looking to complain about something really small.

PS: this spell + blood frenzy 4 + Divine stun is the fucking tits. [ my setup is spell, DS, blood frenzy 4 and cella ]


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My thoughts
** Slow does need to be changed to actually mean something. something really meaningful and obviously the mobs need to do their damage another way
** Shamans are over powered. anyone who doesn't think this is true probably hasn't invested too much time into their character or hasn't made it too late in the game.
** Shaman need some form of better boost for the 6 man game.
** Change runic 2 into something more worth wild. or lower the damage to the shaman
** blood ritual 4 should scale a little better and not damage as much. i do see the point in the trade off but its worse off the better your character gets.



EDIT - Lheo you dont even have chicken tome 1 . you literally do not have the ONE tome that makes your character fucking amazing..

 

[null1fy]

To your point on combining EoT and EotW:

How is the argument "I have never been asked for any stat buffs at the end game. If this was so important people would make space for them." in support of no change? That is incredibly backwards logic, to me. Shards of Dalaya is a game of buffs. Shaman are given three out of five dedicated to buffing, two of which are obsolete in higher tier content.

To your point on Gift of Celerity:

Asking for 60% haste (the same as Swift Like The Wind, which we are given) and increasing the duration / range marginally does not, in any way, step on enchanters toes. It merely adjusts for how the game has evolved. I can SLTW myself/others for about the same duration as GoE except it is single target.

To your third point:

I mentioned I had no experience with R2 or Blood Ritual, and so I'm at the mercy of individuals like yourself who do to try to explain the reasons for, or not for re-balancing the spell or tomes.

Please, Deein, refrain from condescending me. I'd like this thread to really be positive and an affirmation for change. If there is no reason for change, it can be done without pointed insults.

 

[Nebi]

sorry for not granting you a free pass to complain on a class merely on hearsay. Granted I may not be the best shaman ever to grace the halls of dalaya but I can at least give you solid feed back on where I've been and you have not.

How is the argument "I have never been asked for any stat buffs at the end game. If this was so important people would make space for them." in support of no change? That is incredibly backwards logic, to me. Shards of Dalaya is a game of buffs. Shaman are given three out of five dedicated to buffing, two of which are obsolete in higher tier content.

The people who want and "need" the buff aren't asking for it. why is it backwards logic if in this game of buffs nobody wants your buffs?

Asking for 60% haste (the same as Swift Like The Wind, which we are given) and increasing the duration / range marginally does not, in any way, step on enchanters toes. It merely adjusts for how the game has evolved. I can SLTW myself/others for about the same duration as GoE except it is single target.

The trade off for us obtaining the better haste is the lower duration and it being single target.

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This reminds me 100% of a thread where a certain monk screamed bloody murder to a change without 1) properly testing the change and 2) turning down any criticism on their style of play.

PS: Of course you're going to think your class is underdeveloped when you're doing t11 content in gear from t9 ( i checked your fomelo. I gave you a pass on your legs because obviously everyone has that one spot they wish they could change)

PSSo taste like chicken 1 2 3, blood feast 1 2 3 ( Seven Virtues I assume can do tarloc if not 1 and 2 are still quite amazing), get your heal 2, your cri evocation 2, mind 2 and you will see how much more your class improved that you will wonder why you made this post in the first place.

 

[huey]

To play devil's advocate here, people don't ask for those buffs because they take 3 buffs slots for the trio, and buffs slots are situationally at a premium, and also..if people aren't asking for them, shouldn't that indicate they could use some kind of change? Pure speculation, but I bet if they were all in one, a few people would probably start asking you for them. That being said, correct me if I'm mistaken, but isn't 2.5 supposed to bring more buff slots in some form or another? Not that it still wouldn't help a little anyway.

On the haste thing, ancient is basically just a there's-no-chanter-so-shaman-cast-crappy-haste-or-bard-play-haste thing. Even then in most situations people would rather have swift for the higher %. If it was buffed to 60, it would still be significantly worse than either of the chanter hastes, but it would probably stop folks from wasting group time to gate or suicide to go sb an emp or goe on themselves (I've seen this happen multiple times..) More of a convenience thing than any real actual buff. Not like it helps the shaman all that much....if anything, they might get bugged a little more for a buff...

On Blood Ritual and R2, I personally have pretty limited experience with both of them, so I can't say much at all. R2 is pretty situational, but what little I've used it, it wasn't quite as useless as I figured it was just from reading on it. Ritual I've barely messed with yet, but Diashan is literally the first shaman I've heard not say it was totally useless, so idk..

Oehl's post does probably ask for some unnecessary stuff, but so do all these types of posts usually. He also has some good ideas, and states that it's just from his observation and that he welcomes feedback. Diashan, man, he's right. You are coming across hella condescending (look at me! I have everything in a video game, so I'm the only person with a valid opinion!), and kinda missed the whole "Mid" part of the OP title. I don't think he was just looking for fixes to help the small handful of shamen that have made it to the very backend of the whole game. He never stated that he thought that he sucked or anything and critically needed to be fixed. I'm not even saying any of this necessarily needs to be messed with, especially when looking at some of the issues with other classes, but it's as if you missed his whole opening section.

 

[Nebi]

To play devil's advocate here, people don't ask for those buffs because they take 3 buffs slots for the trio, and buffs slots are situationally at a premium, and also..if people aren't asking for them, shouldn't that indicate they could use some kind of change? Pure speculation, but I bet if they were all in one, a few people would probably start asking you for them. .

The spell that is being suggested out of NDHK (where you can get your relics would look like the following)

Slot 1: Increase AGI by 80
Slot 2: Forced Spell Stacking Slot 1: DEX
Slot 3: Increase DEX by 80
Slot 9: See Invisible
Slot 10: Increase Hit Points by 8 per tick
Slot 1: Increase STA by 80
Slot 3: Forced Spell Stacking Slot 1: STR
Slot 4: Increase STR by 80
Slot 8: Ultravision
Slot 10: Waterbreathing

I'm not understanding how someone wouldn't see that as a pretty amazing spell to get out of ndhk. not to mention we get some pretty amazing spells already out of our relics. Focus, Woundbane, Dot.

and also. i didnt say not to do it. i said it was a good idea but probably not as easy as getting it as soon as you got your relic.

On the haste thing, ancient is basically just a there's-no-chanter-so-shaman-cast-crappy-haste-or-bard-play-haste thing. Even then in most situations people would rather have swift for the higher %. If it was buffed to 60, it would still be significantly worse than either of the chanter hastes, but it would probably stop folks from wasting group time to gate or suicide to go sb an emp or goe on themselves (I've seen this happen multiple times..) More of a convenience thing than any real actual buff. Not like it helps the shaman all that much....if anything, they might get bugged a little more for a buff...

this person you are referencing to is literally a min maxer. this person regardless if shamans get a group 60% or not is going to go back and get a haste from an enchanter. if he wasnt a min maxter i doubt he would have had a problem in the first place asking for one from the shaman. thats why to me it sounds like someone just asking for an additional ++ to a class for no reason.

 

[Nebi]

and kinda missed the whole "Mid" part of the OP title.

So let me go back and touch on the "mid" subjects the OP wanted to change.

My take on Gift of Celerity:

I gave my take on this in a previous post. so I did touch on this based on my personal view vs what he was requesting.

My take on Slumber of the Beast:

OP stated that the spell is quite amazing and would continue to use it in its current setup. OP also stated that the movement was a problem in regards to the only bad thing he saw the spell have. OP needs to understand that there has to be a tradeoff for having such an amazing spell. If you need to move you can click it off and continue movement. I do not agree with what was recommended because I feel that the tradeoff for having an amazing spell is justified.

My take on Scourge of Life:

I will agree. this spell is quite amazing.

My take on Essence of Tarhansar and Essence of the Wild:

My position on this has been stated twice in previous posts.

The Archaic Spell

Archaic's suck. Almost every single class needs their archaic in order to be a viable class. Again there are other classes that can aid in slowing so its not an end all thing. I did not have my Archaic for quite some time and beastlords / enchanters had to help out at the very beginning. If anything the quest for the archaic as a whole should be changed in order to make it a bit easier to farm since there arent many "mid" shamans or "mid" anythings anymore.

My take on Runic: Spiritual Attuning:

Spell is amazing to pad casters and I have used it on several fights. Beggars cant be choosers and I agree entirely.

My take on Form of the River Keeper:

The spell is too amazing to worry that you have to wait 12 seconds for it to refresh before you can cast it. again i mentioned my love for this spell above. PS: this spell lasts for 4 hours and 33 minutes on a single cast. 12 seconds to wait before you can cast the spell is not that big of a deal

NOT MID LEVEL SHAMANAS -

My take on Runic: Spirit Graft:
My take on Crippling Surge:
My take on Purification:

I'm basically the devil because I dont agree with a group haste change, a 12 second reduction cast time on an already amazing spell, and believe that having all the buffs from 2 spells on one is OP.

 

[huey]

On stats, I can definitely see that. I know at least pre-2.5 there are limited spell whatevers that can be added, but maybe a higher tier combined version like a drop similar to shout or the rsm pally/wiz spells, or even better, maybe a quest reward similar to mage silks. It would be pretty OP at the NDHK tier, and buff slots probably aren't quite the issue that early anyway, but eventually, once buff slots become so important, it shouldn't be so trivial.

On the haste thing, there's no real way to prove either one of our sides to the argument, so we'll just have to agree to disagree on that part.

You posted the second post after I typed the first stuff out just now, but I don't see much problem with any of that. I think the biggest problems with previous posts is the way you came across. Sometimes the way people word things on here makes it hard to see any points they have, no matter how valid.

 

[null1fy]

All very fair points, Deein. I really think you have a valuable perspective - it was much easier for me to set aside my hurt feelings and to consider what you mentioned past that point!

I think that you've got a fair point to note combining EoT and EotW into one relic would be perhaps far too strong from an early to mid game raider's point of view. Perhaps, akin to the Shaman mask quest, when there could be a quest developed to combine the two. At least, at some point

I think that's about our only contention. Everything else you're stating unnecessary I basically said was so, as well, and more-so a change of convenience.

 

[Moraelintz]

. I think the biggest problems with previous posts is the way you came across. Sometimes the way people word things on here makes it hard to see any points they have, no matter how valid.

When its a well written post and you can see what he is trying to say that is 100% on the reader. If the reader is the type of person that takes things personally and cannot listen to another side of an arguement/discussion because of the *tone* of a post then they shouldn't really be involving themselves in an internet argument/discussion