63 mage spell Summon: Heartseeker Arrow

L

Luther Flame

Dalayan Beginner
I recently got this spell and memed it and noticed it took a while for the spell gem to pop. I see on sod.camongrel.de that its 120min recast, I am not sure how accurate that is but they have been pretty right on for me in the past. So for a stack of 9dmg 200rng arrows (very nice, I think) I spend 5p for the pearl and have to wait for the recast. I honestly don't see myself ever using this spell. I would assume most people don't even know it exists. I was wondering if the spell can be changed somehow. Since the summon arrow spell just below this uses 60 mana and is instant recast. Maybe lessen the arrows, and make it 80mana and instant recast? I don't know how to balance game stuff but I just wanted to know if this is as intended.


Thanks,
Luther
 
I'm a ranger and have had these arrows summoned for me once. The 9 dmg is nice, but it isn't that much of a dmg boost...
( Didnt even notice an increase opposed to the 3 dmg arrows). I'm not a mage, but I think this spell should be changed too.
I think its 30 min recast and thats still very long considering a high end ranger usually goes through 20 arrows in about 20 seconds or less.
 
The 9 dmg is nice, but it isn't that much of a dmg boost...
( Didnt even notice an increase opposed to the 3 dmg arrows). I'm not a mage, but I think this spell should be changed too.
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As I understand it, 9dmg arrows should do 45% more dps than 3dmg arrows. That's remarkably similar to the dps difference between a 65 ranger with no AM and with AM3 (5% difference, if my math is correct!). That makes the arrows very good. Getting back on topic, yeah, the spell isn't one you can cast often, but in theory the arrows do rock. It's a balance that seems to leave the spell commonly unused.

Ranger DPS was adjusted (EQuiver 'nurf/balancing' from max 5dmg arrows to max 3dmg (-15%?)) to be in line with monk DPS, not 'more than rogue DPS', which it apparently was.) Therefore, any easily/mass available arrows over this EQ threshold increase and unbalance ranger DPS. This is not wanted, at least not 'easily'. Thus, 120minutes, 5pp (pearl) and a 63 mage is the balance against / price for such DPS.

What this means is rangers don't go around using 9dmg arrows in 'normal' situations - 99.95% of the time, for most. I guess the question raised is whether there is any need for 9dmg arrows, given the 'cost' (time, money, mage, etc) to get them far outweighs any actual use. The setup currenly, in my view, seems to be such that a Ranger with a Mage friend or alt is prevented from abusing the extra 45% dps possible by the 'cost' - however, this 'cost' rises significantly if you don't have a magician alt/best buddy - to the point that the spell is basically useless (judging a)by my experiences b)by the post here).

I suppose my main point is just that the 'cost' of this spell is high in all situations, intentionally so, to remove the problem of ranger dps balance vs other clases. My understanding is that it's not wanted that ranger dps should be higher than rogue, in any situation, and these 9dmg arrows would cause that. Hence, massive cost. Massive cost = reason for this thread. In so far as these 'other' issues (ie ranger dps) are directly concerned with the spell, 'easy' or 'quick' fixes probably won't be forthcoming ;)

In my opinion, the staff ought to look at mage arrow summoning and decide whether or not they actually want mages summoning arrows. In the endgame, I'd say the answer to that seems to be no. And frankly, whilst 'losing' (at least losing the possibility of greater...) DPS from this decision, I understand it completely, and personally (as a ranger) prefer a situation where I don't need to have to bug the mage(s) every X mobs because my bow's eaten another bazillion arrows and I'm all out.

This would be the easier option. Of course, they could re-do the spell, and re-do archery 'stuff/code', to make everything work as they want, and give use to this spell, but is it really necessary? Perhaps just kill the spell, and sort fletching so rangers can make nice arrows for 'special occasions'.
 
I 2-box a 65 ranger and mage, each with roughly 100 AA. I have cast this spell exactly 2 times. The spell file parser says the recast is 7200 (2 hours). My hasted bow delay is roughly 1.3 sec. If a raid boss fight lasts for 4 minutes then it will take *loads calculator* about 185 arrows. At 20 arrows per cast, that's roughly 9 casts. Since the first cast is "free", that means 8 recast delays. So, to stock my ranger for one 4 minute fight, my mage will require 16 hours of logged in time casting summon arrow spell every 2 hours because the arrows are flagged NO RENT. Even if the recast were reduced to 30 min I still wouldn't use them. At 5 min recast, I might consider it but I'd hate to permanently give up a gem slot for arrow summoning.

I'd personally rather see the spell replaced with a summon pet-only piece of equip that gave a few hundred hp or higher haste effect or maybe even a grab bag of jewelry focus items (although I could see the jewelry being a bit unbalanced if the effects were very good, and worthless if they weren't).
 
These spells work if you zone (hard to do this at a raid, but still). I also don't know if this was intended.
 
Maybe it's intended to use these arrows for a burst of greater damage during a raid kill.... drop these in until they're gone then switch back to normal arrows? Kind of like a mage-summoned discipline. :p
 
Lol, because Tape got like half of stack and then we got tired of waiting to be able to summon them :p
 
What happens if a player has a stack of LORE items?

On EQLive this ... works. You can have a stack of LORE items -- you just can't have 2 stacks of LORE items.

A stack of 20 LORE NO DROP arrows, targetted summoned by a mage (does targetted summoning work?), with a recast duration of something like 3 minutes...

It would give the ranger a 30 second DPS boost (until he ran out of arrows), but the ranger couldn't stockpile the arrows to sustain the burst DPS.
 
tinkaa said:
These spells work if you zone (hard to do this at a raid, but still). I also don't know if this was intended.
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Zoning will only cause the gem to refresh when you first mem it. After your first cast, there is NO way to get another cast before the 2 hour recast. Out of curiosity, I tried everything I could think of. There is no getting around the recast timer. It's like the recast on PERMA. You can re-log and the client timer will say it is ready, but the server remembers how long since you used it and will prevent you from re-using perma before it is actually ready.
 
So, this thread seems to suggest the spell is basically never used. It also seems to suggest that to make it any use in it's current form (9dmg arrows) would be silly. It would mean a)ranger DPS problems, leading to class wars, leading to a meltdown of the server and b)bugging mages lots and lots and lots and lots.

To 'fix' the spell it needs fundamental changes. No 9dmg arrows. No hideous recast.
Perhaps a mage summoned combinable item for fletching to produce arrows? Is it possible for 3dmg+1fire dmg arrows? No rent, but works with EQ. What we need is something simple and sweet, which doesn't effect dps too much, and doesn't 'cost' too much, might work with EQ (? but only no rent, or something...), and, perhaps most importantly from a 'playing the game for fun' point-of-view, doesn't involve mages being /tell 'd every five minutes!

Any thoughts on this whole thread from admins & co.?
 
Fire arrows sound interesting, in the same vein you could do frost arrows, poison arrows, etc. I don't know how well the code would support it, but stun arrows, AoE arrows, and all the superhero archery tricks might be fun as well.
 
The 3 dmg + 1 fire/cold/whatever arrows that work with EQ is a great idea IMO, considering archery damage wouldnt be unbalanced even with 4 damage arrows. This added benefit would have a cost, of course - perhaps a semi-expensive component and be no-rent (as all mage summoned items are). Thus, the spell will have a good use (to those who can use it) without bugging mages, but still require a mage with the spell, a component cost, and perhaps a recast delay (as well as being no rent) to balance it out. Nice job Phlit :)
 
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