3rd monk tome idea

halen

Dalayan Beginner
So I know third monk tome isn't out yet and one idea that I think would be cool is a tome giving monks a better mitigation stance base on 2hb, with one of our special attacks going a minor aggro boost dd. Thoughts?
 

halen

Dalayan Beginner
this is kind of the basic idea I had for it, but I need to look more into mechanics, it may be under/overpowered to be honest since I am being lazy on research
defenive form
while you have a 2hb weapon equiped your defensive abilities are augmented as well as granting your XXX an enraging strike.
rank 1 8% mitigation boost 400dmg enraging strike
rank 2 add 5% dodge boost 500dmg enraging strike
rank 3 add add 5% block boost 550dmg enraging strike
rank 4 add 2 % mitigation boost and 5 % boost to riposte 600dmg enraging strike
 
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Stonewalljack

Dalayan Elder
First, I want to say it's nice to see new people with enthusiasm for SOD. Second, here is my critique:

Numbers: 10% mitigation is huge, currently 4 tomes of bodily resilience provides 4% physical mitigation. 5% avoidance is more then 4 tomes of bodily avoidance, which provides 4% total physical avoidance.

Theme: Why 2hb? Monks currently get a mitigation and avoidance boost to any mob they are auxing with any weapons in, why limit this to 2hb? The newest 2hb has a nice heal proc, but there are many offensive 2hb (the best/only AoE monk option), and some defensive one hand weapons.

Goal: Obviously designed to enhance tanking, so not aimed at our group or raid role of DPS/pulling, though it would increase survivability when pulling. It would provide minimal improvement to soloing as our sustain is more limited by hour self healing options then tanking. Biggest improvement would be in duoing, but monks are second only to tanks in duoing partner to healers.
 

Kapitol K

Dalayan Elder
but monks are second only to tanks in duoing partner to healers.

Monk were the best duo partner for a healer for the longest time in SoD, they were the perfect combination of tankyness/dps until Slaariel put in the combo system which aimed to make them less tanky and do more dmg.

I just don't see any staff member approving a tome that makes monks more sturdy when they are tanking.
 

halen

Dalayan Beginner
the numbers themselves were not supposed to be exact, just giving an idea. secondly it would be more of a tom granting a stance, and the stance would need to convey a higher than tome defensive ability to make it work. 2h theme fits with tanking as a monk with riposte/avoiding riposte and it will lower monks dmg to grant them the higher defensive just by it being 2h instead of bare hands. and yes this would help in both pulling and in grouping not just duoing, especially with the server pop where it is, finding a plate tank isn't easy at times, this would give groups another choice overall. as for past changes. yes, they went that route before but they could change their minds, I think it's a viable way to go but I could be wrong.
 

Stonewalljack

Dalayan Elder
Monk were the best duo partner for a healer for the longest time in SoD, they were the perfect combination of tankyness/dps until Slaariel put in the combo system which aimed to make them less tanky and do more dmg.

I just don't see any staff member approving a tome that makes monks more sturdy when they are tanking.

Wasn't a large part of the tankiness/dps due to items available at the time? Such as prenerf entropy's spine, blazewind gloves and 4.3 robe? Currently I feel pretty tanky if swap out about 6 slots of lower AC gear and put in two weapons, and parsing shows I do within 50 dps of barefist attacking from the front with my current 1handers (due to horok ripo procs and using round kick with high delay and proc rate weapons).

the numbers themselves were not supposed to be exact, just giving an idea. secondly it would be more of a tom granting a stance, and the stance would need to convey a higher than tome defensive ability to make it work. 2h theme fits with tanking as a monk with riposte/avoiding riposte and it will lower monks dmg to grant them the higher defensive just by it being 2h instead of bare hands. and yes this would help in both pulling and in grouping not just duoing, especially with the server pop where it is, finding a plate tank isn't easy at times, this would give groups another choice overall. as for past changes. yes, they went that route before but they could change their minds, I think it's a viable way to go but I could be wrong.

I love being able to tank on my monk, and have pretty much a whole bag of gear swaps to make him more tanky. However, I agree with Kapitol K that being more tanky likely does not fit with the staff's vision of class role.
 

Tevinter

Dalayan Pious Diety
monks are already arguably the tankiest dps class in the game when they want to be, they don't need anything else in that regard. in fact, i think monks are better at tanking exp groups than either knight class at the moment.

monks are in a good spot, doesn't really make sense to add anything to them that makes them even more powerful.
 

Ceto

Dalayan Adventurer
how about a tome that gives monks a chance to double attack w/ throwing weapons (obviously at the cost of two items) as well as a chance to go through target's defenses (i.e. riposte, parry .. keep dodge)? chance could scale off of your dexterity stat (above-cap included) as well as # tomes completed. this gives them a situational buff that doesn't make their dps/tanking any better than it already is but gives them a big boost in situations where they can't be close to mobs.

numbers-wise suggestion:
for each tome (from I through IV) you'd need 1400/1200/1000/800 dexterity to have a 100% chance of double attacking with throwing weapons, your chances linearly scale based off of what dexterity you do have. i.e. if you have 350 dexterity, you'd have a 23.3%/26.9%/31.8%/38.8% chance to double attack, whereas if you had 600 dexterity you'd have 42.8%/50%/60%/75% chance to double attack as you progressed through the tomes. and for the chance to go through target's defenses maybe 15/30/45/60%.
 

AngryCow

Dalayan Elder
I like the idea of giving the monk a short range throwing boost. It would round out the class a bit w/o tampering with any of the things that make the class really strong currently. I'm not sure what the best idea for that would be, but I think throwing is a reasonable option for the classes third class tome line.
 

Tevinter

Dalayan Pious Diety
I think throwing would make monks even stronger than having a tanking stance. Being melee is one of the drawbacks that a monk has. If they can be forced out of melee, but still continue to do passable dps because of throwing, it significantly diminishes the one major weakness that the class has.
 

AngryCow

Dalayan Elder
If it was limited to like 75 range or something and was like half their melee potential I don't think it would be a thing that would be used often, just something nice to have on fights where you'd want a monk to throw things. Like obviously they coudn't have range damage that could edge out rangers or compare to their primary class functions, but allowing some extra damage or maybe elemental effects or something wouldn't be class breaking I'd think.
 

Tevinter

Dalayan Pious Diety
If it was limited to like 75 range or something and was like half their melee potential I don't think it would be a thing that would be used often, just something nice to have on fights where you'd want a monk to throw things. Like obviously they coudn't have range damage that could edge out rangers or compare to their primary class functions, but allowing some extra damage or maybe elemental effects or something wouldn't be class breaking I'd think.
75 range is plenty of range to handle a lot of mechanics that force outside of melee, fights that do whirlwind-esque abilities or force spreading, fights that require you to kite etc. doesn't even consider the fact that ranged attacks also circumvent damage shield effects - another mechanic used to force monks to stop attacking.

shadow shurikens are already pretty strong - they just take an annoying amount of bagspace to fully utilize in a world where nothing really needs to be min-maxed that hard.
 

Ceto

Dalayan Adventurer
comedic monk tome idea:

explosive flop
the monk's body explodes upon feigning death, making it more believable that the monk died as well as dealing aoe melee damage (similar to round kick) to any nearby mob that has the monk targetted (so that it doesn't break mezzes) before dropping aggro

at rank 4 the monk will no longer fail feign death (scales to this point throughout doing each tome) and each rank increases damage of the explosion.


notice how i made the above post in lowercase, this is mostly a joke, try not to get bent


edit:
I think throwing would make monks even stronger than having a tanking stance. Being melee is one of the drawbacks that a monk has. If they can be forced out of melee, but still continue to do passable dps because of throwing, it significantly diminishes the one major weakness that the class has.

the reason i suggested a throwing tome was because monk tanking is already very solid (nearly as good if not equivalent to a warrior with the same tank stats) and high-end monks already do better/equivalent dps than almost every other class so i figured buffing "utility" of sorts (having different ways of dealing damage) was the best option for a new tome. sorry.
 
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Thuug

Dalayan Adventurer
Alternate Flavor for Explosive (Plop): The Monk becomes so committed to feigning death that after theatrically falling to the ground he soils himself to really sell the fact that he has passed on. This monk no longer can fail FD, and further, this excremental release causes a small ae debuff/damage as those in range recoil in horror and look at each other awkwardly. This ae will affect mobs and players alike, also the monk is removed from groups/raids and blocked from joining groups and raids for a period of ten minutes after the FD (or changes his pants).
 

Stonewalljack

Dalayan Elder
No fail FD would be amazing; in the past the sentiment from staff has been to keep some possibility of failure in it though. My favorite two ideas forwarded in the past from Tev and someone else were construct curse (was an old monk style) or reducing mend time.
 

huey

Dalayan Elder
If I could flop and intentionally blow everyone/thing up around me, I'd play again immediately. Suicide Bomber I - IV.

(if no-fail fd is not an option, fd spell dodge or something to that effect.)
 

Tarutao

Staff Emeritus
Alternate Flavor for Explosive (Plop): The Monk becomes so committed to feigning death that after theatrically falling to the ground he soils himself to really sell the fact that he has passed on. This monk no longer can fail FD, and further, this excremental release causes a small ae debuff/damage as those in range recoil in horror and look at each other awkwardly. This ae will affect mobs and players alike, also the monk is removed from groups/raids and blocked from joining groups and raids for a period of ten minutes after the FD (or changes his pants).

*targets a monk
*types "/cmd stats"
Monk appears to be suffering from a contagious disease.
*declines group invitation
*begins suffering from Dark Rot PTSD
 
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