The Tears of Elael: mob summoning

Silosobi

Silosobi

Dalayan Pious Diety
Someone had a thread relating to this before, but the OP got upset for some reason and deleted all his posts.

Casters generally get the shaft as far as exping or questing in the 65+ solo/duo game. Our one exception tends to be outdoor zones where things don't summon. (Meele/healer still tends to be better, but at least we can actually kill things). I don't see why 99% of the mobs in The Tears of Elael couldn't have their summoning removed. Meele/healers can exp and quest in this zone without another person's help, but casters pretty much have to find a group unless we spend excessive amounts of time hunting down the few mobtypes that do not summon.

Runseed immune, caster, and other special ability mobs will keep kiting classes on their toes (or dead), but removing summoning would at least open up the zone to us far more than it is now.

If its desired that the mobs here summon just let me know and I wont push the issue, but the last post never got any verdict as to whether or not that was the case.
 
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Silosobi said:
when two wizards agree, you know it benefits wizards.
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Really though, it has always bothered me that kiting/root loses any usefulness aside from raid encounters specifically made to emphasize those mechanics. Throw casters a solo worthy bone here.
 
Zaela said:
I gave a high end zone a smattering of root-cc-able trash mobs and everyone spends 5 minutes splitting them all with monks anyway. No one even tries to root/snare after a certain point.
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Are you talking about the abyss? Noone wants to risk resists and having someone/the raid die. A dead monk is still useful with dfx but a dead enchanter/druid/whatever slows the raid down more than a monk who cant melee.

If you want people to go back to rooting/snaring mobs you would need to make them immune to mez or nerf the hell out of bards/necromancer ability to mez. Or maybe put in some sweet gimmick for doing so.
 
If the mobs aren't fear immune you could probably duo them with any class that can fear. Not that this helps much with what you're asking for, but it does get the job done against summoning mobs.
 
Zaela said:
I gave a high end zone a smattering of root-cc-able trash mobs and everyone spends 5 minutes splitting them all with monks anyway. No one even tries to root/snare after a certain point.
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it doesnt take 5 minutes to split mobs when you use root clickies to split them :p.
 
people dont take off their damage bracers and then rooted mobs start summoning and things get gross. I like the idea but when fd/mez is easier and safer thats what will get done.

thats an entirely different issue really though. No caster is gonna be soloing there this is about a kiting class having some option to exp and quest without relying on other people.
 
The only way i know to ensure you don't get a summoning mob in tears is to use a ranger and track everything lower level than the kromtor supplier. None of that will summon.

That being said, i offered this idea up, and it was shot down. I still support this, even if i abstain from using the zone.

I also support a redesign of this zone, as the staff already commented saying the original plan for this zone was changed, and what we have is still an unbalanced virtually useless zone most people only ever come to for war wasp sacks. Balancing between the gobos/orcs is still broken, the factions end quests were still broken last i checked, and half the crap items from this zone are flagged as quest items so you can't destroy them without visitng a trash barrel. Zone needs alot of things fixed.
 
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The idea was never shot down in your post.

I don't know what you are upset about, but that attitude wont help get anything changed.

Its actually a very cool zone with a lot of fully functioning quests, sure there are plenty of tweaks to be made, but if you actually wanna help fix them post the details and then leave it alone. Devs have limited time and have to prioritize.
 
Silosobi said:
if you actually wanna help fix them post the details and then leave it alone
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Solosolki and I rarely agree. When we do, *then* you know there's something worth listening to. He's right in this case.

Back to the initial topic of this point, the ability of a wizard to duo something that summons is shaky at best. I don't know that removing mob summoning is the answer to that concern, and I don't know that the '(other class) cannot duo here for quest items either' retort/follow-up wouldn't be rightfully forthcoming immediately after such a change.

For that reason, I as wizard #3 withhold further commentary on the issue, leaving wizards #1 and #2 to wonder if I'm going to be the "I disagree" on this topic as I am with the wizard Runic2.
 
I was doing wiz/enc in tears at around tier 7. I was getting 1-2 kills per mana pool depending how well I played, which was pretty terrible, but its doable regardless and I filled a toon or two with weapons at the time. I bring it up so that if it never gets changed and you desperately have some desire to duo with a wiz there, you could read http://wiki.shardsofdalaya.com/index.php/Enc_/_Wiz_duoing and pm me or zorlon for infos.
 
Ive done the enc/wiz thing. Ive done the wiz/healer thing. Sure they can get by on a lot of mobs... but that's not my point.

I never made a claim that it was impossible to duo here as a caster, just that a meele/healer combo is already vastly superior in the majority of this games content. Allowing kiting classes the occasional outdoor zone without summoning so that they can maybe just be comparable to the efficiency of a meele/healer duo is what I'm suggesting.

The "its a difficult zone" argument is BS. Any healer or meele at my tier can come here and duo with ease. A Wizard on the other hand can bring a gimmicky combo where if you take a bad stun you are dead in a matter of seconds. Even if you play perfectly and never die, your kills per hour will be a joke compared to a more traditional duo. I also happen to enjoy just soloing on occasion.
 
This zone in specific has alot of dynamics to make duo'ing / soloing very hard. Goblins regularly rampage (across all the classes i've found of them) while they are almsot all rediculously high poison/disease resistances. While most orcs (darksun scouts excluded) have rediculously high magic resists. What I'm finding is the problem here is bard/cleric is INCREDIBLY useful if you can consistently keep the mob feared and snared. Some mobs are immune to fear/snare to counter this, but as a whole this method is very effective here. The zone appears ubalanaced to casters because frankly alot of the people don't realize how easy this zone really is as certain classes. If the argument is that this zone is to be top end exp'ing, ranked higher in difficulty than BQ I feel the exp gained should reflect it, especially considering the sub par value of pp/hr gained by the mostly lack luster items per difficulty. I will say, there are some very nice items, similar to deepshade loot. However their frequency is so remote no one ever sees them. The only awesome god exp is goblin captains for those wanting to side orcs, nothing scales in exp reward vs difficulty for those killen orcs.

I feel like this may have been intentional as the original design was said to balance difficulty by forcing high end raiders to side with goblins because tur'ruj was supposedly the same faction as the wandering tur'rujik outside it's gates. Maybe that's where the process of this zone's development and balance got off the track. It just doesn't feel used enough, and I can't recall any complete quests in this zone, maybe they were finished in the past couple weeks or so, but climbing in faction only seemed to get you access to the temple, which wasn't finished either last I checked.
 
SEMI RELATED TANGENT TO THE OP, sorry in advance

Silosobi said:
Ive done the enc/wiz thing. Ive done the wiz/healer thing. Sure they can get by on a lot of mobs... but that's not my point.

I never made a claim that it was impossible to duo here as a caster, just that a meele/healer combo is already vastly superior in the majority of this games content. Allowing kiting classes the occasional outdoor zone without summoning so that they can maybe just be comparable to the efficiency of a meele/healer duo is what I'm suggesting.

The "its a difficult zone" argument is BS. Any healer or meele at my tier can come here and duo with ease. A Wizard on the other hand can bring a gimmicky combo where if you take a bad stun you are dead in a matter of seconds. Even if you play perfectly and never die, your kills per hour will be a joke compared to a more traditional duo. I also happen to enjoy just soloing on occasion.
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First off, yes, wiz/enc is gimicky as hell, absolutely true. Its also obsurdly difficult to actually get good at, and even being good at it doesn't make little mistakes any less painful.

When I first read this I was like ok you convinced me I'm on your side. Then I thought about it after the fact and I have a huge issue with this:

You're arguing that wiz/enc doesn't compare to the efficiency of healer/melee with kills per hour, using this as a justification to make mobs snarable. If you're soloing, you have exactly the same amount of kills per hour on a wiz as you do with wiz/enc. So your best case scenario for this as a duo would be boxing two wizards and yo-yo kiting with aggro, with a snared mob? I just don't understand how making mobs not summon and making them snarable is going to drastically increase your kills per hour, short of just making it exponentially easier to do what wiz/enc already lets you do. I mean I'm not fundamentally opposed to this concept I'm just trying to understand what it is you're after here.

Also the bad stun argument is a completely irrelevant argument to the wiz/enc thing, which makes me think you kinda just toyed with the duo and didn't really try getting good with it (again, I've got nothing against this either, just trying to bring clarity to the argument). That zone is literally the most difficult thing I found doable with wiz/enc before the dps threshold becomes too high for the whole thing to work, and a mob or two are beyond that threshold.
 
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Abelfaec said:
I feel like this may have been intentional as the original design was said to balance difficulty by forcing high end raiders to side with goblins because tur'ruj was supposedly the same faction as the wandering tur'rujik outside it's gates. Maybe that's where the process of this zone's development and balance got off the track. It just doesn't feel used enough, and I can't recall any complete quests in this zone, maybe they were finished in the past couple weeks or so, but climbing in faction only seemed to get you access to the temple, which wasn't finished either last I checked.
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No, and no.

Inside turruj = Loyal to the crazy orc who's name I Can't remember. Outside = Loyal to their old religion. You have to be non kos to orcs to get inside.
 
Thats the new lore, its been said a few times that at one point they were intended to be on same faction.
 
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