Some Necromancer AAs & spells

So while AAs are being discussed for other classes, I thought about asking a few things :

- Leechstorm AA : does 715 dmg PBAE (resistible with -150MR), still not sure how the lifetap recourse is calculated but it seems to give back as much hp as if if it was a single lifetap. It's not affected by focii & tomes afaik. Would it be possible to either make it affected, or straight change it to something really useful ? cause the recast is pretty long for rather pathetic DMG for a necro that can constantly cast thanks to his mana regen abilities. Or if at least it could be a lifesaving stuff that would lifetap for as much as it effectively drains, if possible with lower casting time, taht would make it much more useful.
EDIT : forgot Recession , it's unresistible so I guess shouldn't be affected by elemental focii, but what about tome xp for example or dmg increment ?

- Leads me to ask for more / different Undead DD dmg. What are the options against undead ? charm ok, slow, but what about real dmg ? Dissolvment (shared with clerics) is cool bane based stuff but gets resisted a shitload compared lifetaps due to 0 adjust - which is why necros would rather use their lifetap to be sure not to spoil mana. I bet it's the same for druids who would rather use relic against their Disposement or whatever it's called. So would it be possible to either put some adjust on 65 bane DDs ?
Or on another note , I wonder why Necros wouldn't get some AE spells specifically against undead. I don't ask for Consecrate, but like something more like Sanctify+ at like level 63+. We could trade something like Cryotoxin for it cause I'm sorry but this spell isn't what people would expect for a 63 necro spell (high resist rate, dmg not significant enough to make it useful against ancient lifetap which has a 200 adjust).

-ZEVFEER'S THEFT OF VITAE. OK there was a post recently about this spell. I suggested the recourse went to song window as any other hot (worst change) or that it shared the Leech line (I mean self lifetaps over time) buffslot so that it doesn't overwrite all the spells it currently does (Natureskin or preservation for druids , some mage pet buffs iirc). It's a completely forgotten spell that I like to use, but seriously so many people bitch at it I 'm afraid to use it if it's not when I duo. The song window (would be overwritable by Pally/cleric spells) make more sense to me although Ive always seen the recourse as an overHoT that could stack with self necro Hot + priest HoT. But it can make it more useable I'm in.

Thanks for taking all this into consideration. I know ppl will find this as whining but it's mostly what I've been thinking for ages, I hope other people will share some of the ideas.

-Leechstorm-
Decent AoE damage, Weak Recourse, Crazy Long Timer for what it does = could use a change
Possible fixes...
1. Make the recourse affect the whole party... more of a useful 'oh #&%#' then. The name kind of suggests hps would be flying all over anyhow.
2. Shorten the timer significantly (half or more)
3. Rename it 'Lichstorm' and make it a mana effect instead of hps- 700 mana once an hour and twelve would actually be useful, whereas 700 hp once an hour and twelve is just redundant.

Undead DD (and I'm guessing other Bane damage) does get resisted, imho, far to often considering the classes that have it are supposed to be adepts at killing undead. Not really a big issue for necros as we have plenty of other options, but it makes me feel sad for clerics

-Cryotoxin-
Just a terrible spell that should be replaced (see Dzillion's observations).
Some really great spells that don't have upgrades 60+...
1. Mind Wrack
2. Mind Wrack
3. Splurt
4. Scent of Terris [more dreaming/kidding here- SoT is already plenty strong when compared to other resist debuffs and in no real need of an upgrade]

-Zevfeer's-
Stacking issue is teh suck. I think Dzillion's idea of having it share the same slot as other DoT lifetaps is a good idea.

Another idea for Leechstorm:


Change it to an AE undead nuke. Base dmg maybe around consecrate, not sure if affaceted by Bane Enhancement or not. I'd murder someone to see some sort of AE Undead dmg on Necros but I kinda like my spells the way they are and this would give a somewhat useless (Read as: very, very, VERY situational) AA a nice use.


Cryotoxin:

I like it tbh, at least the base idea. What I'd like to see is maybe a slight adjust to resist mods and a slightly upped damage. Otherwise it offers nice opportunities.

Zevfeer's:

Would be nice if stacking issues could be resolved, otherwise the spell is fine IMO.



A word about Scent of Terris:

This is a pretty awesome spell. Debuffs FR, PR, DR with a poison counter. Due to Necromancer spells you'll use it A LOT in the upper end. There are however three general downsides:

a) Longish cast
b) Recasttime
c) Resist rate is so/so

I can live with all of those as well as not getting an upgrade but well - an upgrade to this would be quite nice and welcomed, replacing Cryotoxin would be an option albeit none I'd like.



Different issue with Scent of Terris: Apparently Archaic: Tarhyl's Raging Curse overwrites is. This seems logic since it's a huge FR debuff and superior in about every way but on the second look it's pretty bad since we lose the only way to debuff PR and DR on mobs which I deem kinda bad. I talked to Woldaff about it some time ago but didn't hear back so I'll repeat the question: Is there a way to make them stackable and only apply one FR debuff portion so we can still get the pros of PR/DR debuffs?

Just to say I wouldn't throw splurt it with these spells. If you aren't using splurt then your doing something wrong.


What if Leachstorm was changed into a lifetap DoT type of thing.

Like some other spells but increased proportionally and with a longer life time

Returns 850hp back to the caster for 6-8 ticks Maybe more? Wouldn't overpower too much considering if a necro is getting wailed on itwouldn't really save but it'd be nice on boss AE fights and such

Yes, I use splurt all the time b/c its efficient low aggro damage, so why wouldn't I put it on a list of spells I would like to see an upgrade of??

Can't say I see much of a point in making Leechstorm a DoT. Basically that takes the problem of mediocre damage, weak recourse, crazy long timer (for what it does), very very situational usefulness and makes the weak recourse a ridiculous recourse (6800hps?!?!).

Scent of Terris really doesn't need any kind of upgrade, it is both better and worse then Malo/Mala at current and any upgrade would probably make it flat out better- which isn't very fair to Magicians/Shaman. Though it doesn't hurt to dream, right?



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Maybe I am just crazy and stupid, but I fail to see the redeeming qualities of Cryotoxin...

Cryotoxin [Level 63: 475 poison/475 cold damage for 350mana, 5 sec cast, 12 recast] 2.71 DPM
Chill Bones [Level 55: 790 cold damage + stun for 305 mana, 6 sec cast, 12 recast] 2.59 DPM
Torbas's Venom Blast [Level 54: 775 poison damage for 295 mana, 4 sec cast, instant recast] 2.62 DPM

Obviously Cryotoxin is slightly more mana efficient- yes by a tiny bit. Though if a mob is resistant to either cold OR poison Cryotoxin is easily replaced by CB or TVB (whichever one won't get resisted, obviously). If a mob isn't resistant look at the benefits the other have over Cryotoxin- a stun and total spammability. The stun is situational though very useful in those situations and being able to spam damage means you can dish out nearly 3X as much damage in the same amount of time!! I suppose if a mob was resistant to cold AND poison cryotoxin would be somewhat better in a certain kind of way- double your chances of doing *some* damage, but if you can't find a better way to spend your mana then paying 350 mana for the 475 damage a half resist does you should probably go play a warrior or tetris.

So if a mob isn't resistant chances are the Nec benefits more from a stun or spammabilty then very minor mana efficiency. If the mob is resistant to either Poison OR Cold leaving ol' Cryotoxin off the spell bar is a nobrainer. If the mob is resistant to Cold AND poison then boo-hoo you they all suck. Did I miss something?

On the cryotoxin matter, I do'nt even compare it to the lower nukes.
But check with Lifebane :
1) -200adjust MR (I think none for Cryotoxin but not sure as the parser is elusive about it). Mobs have to be super magic resistant for Cryotoxin to be worth it resistwhile.
2) Vampiric lore makes it crit more than any other nukes on average I believe
3) 850 dmg vs 475+475 for 30 more mana. In this case Lifebane is slightly less interesting - but thereis no partial resist on lifetaps - but obv no one is asking for lifetaps to be overall better than any given nuke.

The big thing about Cryotoxin is , are we objective when we say "it gets resisted a lot" ? is there a resist adjust on it ? if no I think it could use, as Luas said , a +DMG or adj.mod.
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On Splurt, better use relic lifetap hots imo. Splurt could really see an upgrade, cause 16 ticks weakening ok ; but do you consider the lame dmg ?
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Leechstorm working as a group instant recourse would be nice although I fear it might be too much to ask Otherwise, don't agree on making it a DoT or something like that.
My point is that AA dmg (at least recession & Leechstorm) don't get affected by any +dmg thingie (but I lack a magic focus so maybe I'm wrong - at least not tomes). That would already make them more interesting, and fairer overall.
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Scent : 3sec cast, 6 sec recast, -50 PR.... come on we can't ask for the moon ! it's great already.

http://angrygamer.net/sodwiki/index.php?title=Cryotoxin

I'm confident in my parser (I wrote the one that populated the wiki). As a comparison for resist adjusts (not at all comparing our spell to this one) you can check
http://angrygamer.net/sodwiki/index.php?title=Spell:_Taraztu's_Infernal_Trap
where you'll note all 3 parts of the spell have resist adjusts, so the parser did pick it up when available.

OK uh long story short it's indeed a 0 resist adjust as expected.

Sometimes I forget to mention the point in my posts.

Zaknafean said:

Sometimes I always forget to mention the point in my posts.

Click to expand...

On the cryotoxin matter: At the upper hand where you have some elemental foci at hand the damage portion of cold and poison are increased along with the boost from Damage Inc and Tomes. From top of my head I can nuke with 600+dmg from each portion which is quite nice considering the mana costs. Nothing too terrible good but handy at times.


About Scent: My main point here is: Make it stackable with Druid Archaic. I know that this spell is badass as is, let me dream about upgrades at times :|
The recast can be bothersome but nothing too bad, the only really bad thing are stacking issues. Fix this and I'll be happy with it forever.


About Leechstorm: Please don't make it a DoT or Recourse. Buffslots are low as is (I know Casters usually can handle this better but still). I'd like to either make it a grouptap with ~1k dmg or change it to an undead AE nuke. Not sure what is welcomed/feasible.

Diff necro spell, but this is my 2cp on what needs to be changed:

I think the Scent line of resist debuffs needs to be tweaked. It doesn't need to be better, i think it would just be good to make it a little less resistible.
Also, the final version of it (scent of terris) is actually named incorrectly, after the God on the live servers. That should probably get changed.

Bumping another necro related thread /fears the wrath

I've come to agree with Luas that this is a fairly useful spell in regards to damage... WHEN IT DOESN'T GET PARTIALLY/COMPLETELY resisted.

Currently this spell fails compared to Ancient Lifebane, 55 Chillbones, 54 Torbius's except on mobs that are weak to BOTH poison and ice, which I have yet to find many of.

Cryotoxin isn't really a huge concern, but as the 'best' necro nuke it would be nice to have a means of dealing a bit of burst damage somewhat reliably (-25 resist?), even if it meant a longer recast, higher casting cost, or some other trade-off.

Stop bumping old threads.

The proper method is to make a new thread and link to the old one.

Good luck dude, promess this time I won't shit up the thread :monocle: