Character flags to insure 2/3rd rule.

Snake

Dalayan Elder
It seems to me there is a strong wish from the Dev's to inforce the 2/3rd rule, and i agree with it.
But it seems that the 2/3rd rule arent applied only to character, but also (and more so) to guild. This seems odd to me.

For example a few of my chars have lost there Well Ring ability. They can no longer controle the 2nd Spirit at all. I think the reason is that my chars are now in a guild that have not killed the Well yet, and the Dev's are afraid that i will exploid the system, and there for my chars have lost this ability.

I agree that my chars should not be able to move other chars around, in ways only possible, if these other chars have killed a number of mobs, giving them this privilege.
But i think there is a different way to do it.

For example, if i gather with me 18 people who have all killed the Well, but are no longer in guilds that have ever killed the Well, why shouldnt we be able to controle the 2nd Spirit? We all put in the work for it, so i think we earned that privilege (if i can say such a think on free server).



Here is my version of a flag system that insure's the 2/3rd rule.

When ever you kill a "Boss" that in some way gives you access to a new area, your charecter gets a flag.
This boss may drop a key, or several key's, a port clicker or a part of port clicker (same result), or some other way of opening to a new area (crack in the wall for example). I will refer to such access ability as a "key".
Such a key should only be lootable by someone who have all the preceding flags required.

In order for a key to work, your group or raid must consist of atleast 2/3rd chars with the flag from the Boss that gives you this access.

This system can be cheated, but your not in doubt that your cheating.
So instead of making rules like "once a raid zones in, it is now locked. If you want new people in the raid, you all have to port out, destroy the raid, and re build the raid, then go back in", just make it so there is no doubt about that people are cheating. If they are caught cheating, bye bye.

As it is now, you can form a raid, click your OP key, and enter an area your probably not suppose to be in with this raid. The person clicking the OP key might not even be "worthy" of it.

Make it clear to all what the requirements are. Make it clear to all when your raid/group is not "flagged" for an area.



How to implement such a system, now that we all are missing flags from Boss's that now gives you a flag?

Some flags and key's you can easily prove.
If you have loot from that Boss, you must have killed it, you get a flag.

But since there will be alot who will need flags, that they probably already earned, i suggest * version of Boss mobs that gives flags, if the "real" Boss is dead. * version only gives flags, no key's or loot, nothing, but a flag. Leave it like that for some time.


This may not be perfect, but i think its alot better than the current system, and i can't come up with a more simple solution.
 
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You plan on pugging Eternal Well? I mean... it's honestly not that difficult, but still...what?

You won't get an entire pug filled with people who have at one point in time gotten their Well ring, but are no longer a part of a guild who is flagged for it. In which case you can have those who are currently in a guild flagged for Well do the ringing.

Problem solved.
 
I think the 2/3 rule should be eliminated. I think that if a group of people want to do a PUG on something that required a flag, key, etc, EVERY GUILD in the pug should be flagged for it.

Example:

Guild X is not flagged for wing Z, they have never killed the mob that gives the flag for wing Z, EVER. Guild X has 8 people that have been flagged for wing Z (coming from other guilds, PUG shit, etc). A couple of people in Guild X have access to some out of guild toons that are flagged for wing Z. Guild X takes 14 of their own toons, and 4 out of guild toons (boxed lol). This 'pick up raid' now meets the 2/3 rule. Guild X gets to go to wing Z w/o ever being flagged for it.

It has been stated in the past from devs that guilds need to flag even if everyone in the guild has done it in the past with other guilds. This is pretty extreme, but there is a slippery slope with the 2/3 pug rule, etc.
 
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You plan on pugging Eternal Well? I mean... it's honestly not that difficult, but still...what?

You won't get an entire pug filled with people who have at one point in time gotten their Well ring, but are no longer a part of a guild who is flagged for it. In which case you can have those who are currently in a guild flagged for Well do the ringing.

Problem solved.

You read my post, and that was your conclusion... lol.

I hope that its possible to implement a system that inforces the 2/3rd rule, based on what individual characters have achieved.

Why your progress on individual character's are "overwritten" by the guild tag you wear, i don't get.


So really what your saying Renshu is, that all chars in the raid must be flagged WHILE having this Guild name.
This means that if you form a new guild, you ALL have to re flag your self with this new Guild Name, no matter your background.

Well so far only i see this as a strange thing, so perhaps its just me not getting this "Guild tag flagging" thing.
But really, if you arent allowed to use chars previous flagging in a guild they did not do this flagging with, then it shouldnt be allowed on a pug either.
Cause then Pug's really is just a way to cheat the system.
 
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But really, if you arent allowed to use chars previous flagging in a guild they did not do this flagging with[...]
It's getting even more confusing here: If you are flagged and join a guild that is flagged (or has good claims for being flagged - I'm not quite sure if TU ever did OP or ValorA for example), you don't have to re-flag, as an individual.
 
This is why rules are intentionally left vague where they can be. You put numbers on something, and everyone becomes a mathmatician/lawyer. The spirit of the rule is: If your raid doesn't belong somewhere, don't be there. If you raid didn't earn a privelage, don't use it. Some raid areas are more strictly progression oriented than others. If your raid is a guild raid, make sure you're following the proper progression that your guild is at. If you raid is a PUG raid, you follow the progression steps (or arrange your raid to meet the proper progression steps) of the content you wish to experience.

I say this when it's common knowledge that my toon's been jailed for a week before for being in a raid on one of the farhags when the raid wasn't 2/3s flagged (and it's not a jailing I disagreed with.) Did I ask if they were flagged? Yes. Did they tell me they were flagged? Yes. Were they? Nope! Alteration of your ability to control the 2nd spirit when you're reguilded below that progression step is kind of like protection from liars for you. Look at it this way: You'll never get in trouble this way for using your well ring after your raid said "ayup we done it uh huh uh huh ayup yup yup!"

I've also seen instances where guilds were told to gtfo of an area b/c they hadn't completed the progression up to that point as a guild yet, despite meeting the 2/3rds rule for PUG raids. I think the intent of the rule is: If you're a guild, you raid together all the time, your guild does the progression, have fun, grats phats. If you're a pug, you're a guild for one raid, so 2/3 flagging is a basic guildline for whether or not your raid should be where you're at content-wise to go slay some dragons. I don't really see pugs as a way of cheating the flagging system...it's just...idk...rent-a-guild.

The well ring isn't a big deal anyway...just kill the damn flare fiend, it's not The Red Skeleton ffs! NGL, the well ring's ability to let you skip the flare fiends could be removed from the game all together and just serve as an access tool to the additional options it provides, and I wouldn't shed a tear. If your guild is at the well level, use the ring, if your guild isn't, less temptation to use it (even for those that like to ring up and still go back and do the flare fiend). If you're doin a pug....well nobody in their right mind would take a pug to gens or the well, it's just asking for brain cancer and frustration, and there's no reason to not just kill the flare fiends on a pug anyway, it's a good warm up.

tl;dr version: I think it's fine as-is with a set of guildelines people are expected to follow and consequences when someone finds out they aren't. Puting up *versions for flags won't work on several different levels that I don't feel like going into, and requiring guild tags for flagging isn't the answer either, for more reasons that I again, don't want to type out.
 
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(I'm not quite sure if TU ever did OP or ValorA for example)

Nwaij made a good point there, people change guilds.

But to have an item rendered useless (with no notifcation) because of your current guild tag is dam right annoying, it is something people have worked for regardless of their guild history.

What was wrong with the 2/3rd rule? - I play down the line an keep my nose clean. Here is a quote from the last Elab we did in ToT;

On that Elab there were people from 3 different guilds and one unguilded person, however they were all flagged.

So as I see things now, I can no longer move around ToT freely despite the fact that im fully flagged due to my guild status.

TLDR = Please honor the 2/3rd rule or a GM clearly outlines in the "rules" section that if you switch guilds your items get nerfed.

Anyways rant off, im gonna go ninja loot a "Mark of the Tribes" and get on with it :dance:
 
I don't care two horse ass about the rules but they actually changed it so well rings can lock out based on your guild? Lol thats fucking terrible, Oh yeah check out that elab time to get my ragecaller. Oh wait I joined power through and those 80 something eternal well clears mean nothing?


On a lesser note, selling guild invites to giggly schoolgirls get your elab on.
 
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Lets put it this way, my app to IL was basically (condensed a little) "Hi I will not raid much but I consider a few people in the guild as friends, hence the app"

I took a long break (4 months) from SoD in January, but is it really fair that my flags/items get nerfed when I changed guild?

Stop being a shitcake and remove the restrictions from our well ring please.

Now I can no longer move around ToT, or port people up to ToT and then control the second spirit, so my " Mark of the Well" is dead weight in my inventory.

So what gives;

If you are going to deflag people due to the guild they are in then fine;

Question, How can I reactive my "Mark of the Well" if I change guild?

Good job driving a wedge between guild interaction.

Justify this please. I play SoD for fun and have invested many hours into it. But to have flags stripped for no reason is pretty shitty
 
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you still have all your fllags don't worry you just can't use your well ring to port your newly adopted guild past the flare fiends or behind farhanniath or whatever

when all this happened, people said well if it's not supposed to happen, code it so that it can't happen. i coded it. flexing really hard the whole time.
 
Guild X is not flagged for wing Z, they have never killed the mob that gives the flag for wing Z, EVER. Guild X has 8 people that have been flagged for wing Z (coming from other guilds, PUG shit, etc). A couple of people in Guild X have access to some out of guild toons that are flagged for wing Z. Guild X takes 14 of their own toons, and 4 out of guild toons (boxed lol). This 'pick up raid' now meets the 2/3 rule. Guild X gets to go to wing Z w/o ever being flagged for it.

This is very clearly not a pickup raid. Attempts to misconstrue this as a pickup raid to staff would be dealt with as lying to staff.

That said, if you have a better idea than the 2/3 rule for pick-up raids, start a Suggestions and Requests thread.
 
It has nothing to do with PUGs / whatever - it is about removing flags / items from people that have earned the right to be there. Please fix this.
 
Seems to me at the very least the nerfed Mark of the Well should act like a Mark of the Tribes when used on the second spirit.
 
Threads like this make me happy I dont play the game anymore.

I don't see why stricter rules should be placed on 18 people from 1 guild rather than 18 people from 3 separate guilds. It's good to know if I ever log in and try to use my Well Ring for shits and giggles, its not gonna work. Save me a headache
 
This is very clearly not a pickup raid. Attempts to misconstrue this as a pickup raid to staff would be dealt with as lying to staff.

http://shardsofdalaya.com/forum/showthread.php?t=18146 -----> post #88

That said, if you have a better idea than the 2/3 rule for pick-up raids, start a Suggestions and Requests thread.

Im not gonna start a S/R thread, I've tried to make my point several times



Also, well ring flagging is fucked up beyond what the original poster stated. We have toons that cannot use well ring that have gotten it legit.
 
Where in the rules does it say when the Well ring gets nerfed?



When are your char consitered Flagged for IS?
After your char have done, Warden + Seer's-room-key-dropper + gotss + all of OP + all of IP?
Can you do it with anyone, or must it all be done wearing the same guild tag all the way?


When are your char conistered Flagged for Grobb Undercity?
Do your char just have to be in guild with someone who did the quest?
Or must everyone considered flagged for Grobb Undercity participate in the whole quest, with the char ending up with "key" for Grobb Undercity?


When is your char flagged for UT?
When your char wears a guild tag that made a clicker, in house?
When your char took part in killing all LT Boss's all wearing the same guild tag?
When your char took part in killing all LT Boss's (no guild tag restrictions)?


When is your char flagged for being clicked in to DFS with the Mirror clicker?
Must you have done a Boss kill where you clear the whole way?
Must this kill be done by the same guild?
 
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Where in the rules does it say when the Well ring gets nerfed?



When are your char consitered Flagged for IS?
After your char have done, Warden + Seer's-room-key-dropper + gotss + all of OP + all of IP?
Can you do it with anyone, or must it all be done wearing the same guild tag all the way?
Must all in group / raid doing the flagging be in your guild only?


When are your char conistered Flagged for Grobb Undercity?
Do your char just have to be in guild with someone who did the quest?
Or must everyone considered flagged for Grobb Undercity participate in the whole quest, with the char ending up with "key" for Grobb Undercity?


When is your char flagged for UT?
When your char wears a guild tag that made a clicker, in house?
When your char took part in killing all LT Boss's all wearing the same guild tag?
When your char took part in killing all LT Boss's (no guild tag restrictions)?


When is your char flagged for being clicked in to DFS with the Mirror clicker?
Must you have done a Boss kill where you clear the whole way?
Must this kill be done by the same guild?

Either ur guild has done the shit or it hasnt. UR trying to circumnavigate the rules.
 
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