School District Today, Violent Kids

[Xardon]

I know this can be a touchy subject, and I hope when people read this they have an open mind and understand everyone has their own opinions. Stating this from the start as I don't know what direction this thread could go....

http://www.capitalnews9.com/content/top_stories/default.asp?ArID=167684

This is an article in my local area news site. The district I consult for has major problems with violence in their schools, and oddly enough it's mostly their middle schools. There have been many stabbings, knife fights, kids coming to school with guns/weapons. We've all seen this in the past, but I've seen it brewing to almost a critical mass lately. The district wanted to put in metal detectors ... public threw a fit. The district wanted to have two city officers in each school ... public threw a fit. The public just complains, and demands something be done, but they don't want to be a part of it. Now I'm not a parent, but I cannot understand for the life of me, why parents today don't seem to want to get involved with their kids education. Maybe it's time, maybe it's money. We're pretty much forced in to having a two income family today if we have/want kids. Is the lack of family support the issue? Is it the teachers? Is it the administration? Any school I walk through, elementary -> high school there are kids everywhere swearing left and right in the halls. If a teacher looks their direction, "What the f*** are you looking at?" I remember when I was in school, you even thought about swearing and you got detention. Well today detention doesn't exist, and as a matter of fact, most teachers in the district I am in don't even really teach anymore, they just try to babysit the kids and keep them quiet for the entire period. Two classrooms I was in fixing computer problems, the whole time the teacher was just telling them to be quiet. Another classroom she was reading Romeo and Juliet to herself because the rest of the class was just talking to each other. There is no more learning, no control. Another teacher was cornered in her classroom, spit on, put in a headlock, and threatened with a knife. She quit the next day, with nothing done but the kids who had the knife arrested and released since they were still minors.

My primary question is ... what do you do? How can this district come up with ideas to promote education again? How can they keep the schools safe? Is it a lost cause? We have no control over their family life, we can't teach family values ... so what are some possible ideas?

[Aneas]

My primary question is ... what do you do? How can this district come up with ideas to promote education again? How can they keep the schools safe? Is it a lost cause? We have no control over their family life, we can't teach family values ... so what are some possible ideas?
I don't think it's a lost cause, but I think the first step is holding the parents accountable. The educational institutions cannot operate with their hands tied, as you have witnessed.

Where my kids attend school, the discipline escalates according to the frequency and degree of the offense as follows:

1. Detention
2. Longer detention
3. In-school reassignment (all-day detention away from other students)
4. Suspension (few days)
5. Longer suspension that includes the parents having to pay daily tuition for their child to attend a special school for problem students during the suspension
6. Expulsion

We also have a zero tolerance policy against weapons, alcohol and drugs. Any incidence of possession of either results in an immediate arrest.

A child who refuses to conduct themself in a civil manner should be the parents' problem or that of local law enforcement, not the school's.

[Tempus]

My primary question is ... what do you do? How can this district come up with ideas to promote education again? How can they keep the schools safe? Is it a lost cause? We have no control over their family life, we can't teach family values ... so what are some possible ideas?
I don't think it's a lost cause, but I think the first step is holding the parents accountable. The educational institutions cannot operate with their hands tied, as you have witnessed.

Where my kids attend school, the discipline escalates according to the frequency and degree of the offense as follows:

1. Detention
2. Longer detention
3. In-school reassignment (all-day detention away from other students)
4. Suspension (few days)
5. Longer suspension that includes the parents having to pay daily tuition for their child to attend a special school for problem students during the suspension
6. Expulsion

We also have a zero tolerance policy against weapons, alcohol and drugs. Any incidence of possession of either results in an immediate arrest.

A child who refuses to conduct themself in a civil manner should be the parents' problem or that of local law enforcement, not the school's.

Corporal Punishment WRU?

[JayelleNephilim]

Corporal Punishment WRU?

Come to my house! We believe in it here (although my 2yo son still decides to paint my house with chocolate syrup).

[Gorathtec]

Low amperage, high voltage.

If thier eyes roll to the back of their skull, you may want to lower the amperage a tad.

[Aneas]

Corporal Punishment WRU?

Come to my house! We believe in it here (although my 2yo son still decides to paint my house with chocolate syrup).
Same here. Trouble is that society has been Dr. Spockified. It only makes sense that if the schools aren't going to be allowed to dicipline the kids, then the parents should pick up that slack. Too many are against either happening, though.

[Xardon]

1. Detention
2. Longer detention
3. In-school reassignment (all-day detention away from other students)
4. Suspension (few days)
5. Longer suspension that includes the parents having to pay daily tuition for their child to attend a special school for problem students during the suspension
6. Expulsion


Here's the problem, detention doesn't work because the kids just leave, or they threaten the teachers, etc. Suspension doesn't matter for them because you do that and they are happy, they don't want to be in school to begin with. Expulsion .... can't expel just about everyone.

It's getting pretty bad, the kids control the schools now, not the teachers. The teacher's can't even defend themselves anymore without some parent threatening a lawsuit.

[Allielyn]

Currently (at least in many parts of the USA) teachers are looked upon as surrogate parents with all the responsibility and none of the control.

Parents need to take responsibility. It's hard, it takes time, but it needs to be done. And the government should hold them so.

If it means that parents as well as chilrdren get harsh punishments for things like threatening violence, then good.

[GuiardoTuneweaver]

Here's the problem, detention doesn't work because the kids just leave, or they threaten the teachers, etc. Suspension doesn't matter for them because you do that and they are happy, they don't want to be in school to begin with. Expulsion .... can't expel just about everyone.

This is only because of the bad parenting. When I was in school, it wasn't the detention itself that was the deterrent, it was what the parents would do to you if you got detention. In the end, the school and teachers can't do anything about bad behavior if the parents don't do their part. Parents today either don't care enough, are just too lazy, or have way too permissive attitudes about parenting. :(

[Xardon]

But what can a Public School District do to *try* to help make things better? I agree with everyone who said the parents have to help, but in this case, the public is blaming the school district. The district is taking a TON of heat because they district cannot say "Parents if you only did your job we wouldn't be in this mess" Of course the district realizes most of the problems stem from the family life, but they cannot change that. Is there *anything* at all, anyone could think of that the district could *try* to do to help make things better? There must be some way to help encourage saftey in schools, get the kids motivated, and get the parents involved in the school "community" (Which right now is pretty non-existent)

I've gone in to classrooms before and they high school kids were crazy, they were swearing at the teacher. The teacher had NO control at all. I was there to fix one of the PC's. While I was fixing it, one of the kids asked me what I was doing, I told him that the machine's video card had just fallen out of the AGP slot, and that's why nothing was being displayed when it was turned on. They started asking a bunch of PC and computer game questions, they asked if I played GTA, and what my favorite FPS was. Now the class they were taking was a basic level Autocad course, most of the kids though did not seem to care. I explained a little about the history of games that I grew up with, and how graphic design is a very important and growing field. When I was explaining everything to them I was relating it to games they like to play, like Doom 3, GTA, etc. The kids responded and asked if their classes really even help towards that, and I told them yes because it gives them a baseline to start from. I told them it's a lot like a video game, take an FPS for example, you always only start out with a knife, lead pipe, or little hand gun. As you play the game you work your way up to the BFG's and Plasma Rifles. Because they were able to understand that analogy based on their gaming experience, they became a little more motivated to learn. The teacher a few days later e-mailed me to thank me and asked how I did it ... it was quite simple to me because I am a gamer, but I was able to relate to them on their level. Most younger teachers I have found can do this well, but not every teacher can relate to the majority of the kids today.

[zodium]

Kids in the US seem to consist largely of shitty human beings. In Europe, nobody ever cares to write about teenagers unless they're immigrants or some other fringe group.

[JayelleNephilim]

Kids in the US seem to consist largely of shitty human beings.

:brow:

[Xardon]

Kids in the US seem to consist largely of shitty human beings. In Europe, nobody ever cares to write about teenagers unless they're immigrants or some other fringe group.

A friend of mine married a girl from Sweden, and she told me that there they have to take a test around 8th grade or so in order to continue their education, if they fail it the get booted and have to either do nothing, acquire a tradeskill, or join the military. Again I don't know the details of it, but that is how it was explained to me, maybe someone from over there could explain it better for me? But from how it was explained to me it sounded like a good way to go.

[zodium]

Kids in the US seem to consist largely of shitty human beings.

:brow:

Well really. I hear tons of news stories about those horrible teenagers in the US that are apparently worthy of national mention, but never any about Europe and much less about Denmark, not even any local stories.

[JayelleNephilim]

It makes me sad that this is the case. :( *moves with her kids to Denmark* :P
Sadly, the majority of the horror stories I hear are those of the inner cities, and of other poor neighborhoods.

[Gea]

How about installing a restrictive weapon law, finally? But that seems to be a holy cow.
Sure, that wouldn't help against agression and violence, but a agressive kid with fists or with a gun makes a difference, somehow :roll:

[Xardon]

What if a computer video gaming after school program was created ... anyone think that might work? Let the kids take out their anger/aggression virtually? I doubt the school district would endorse something like that, but you, keep kids off the streets, they have fun, and let out anger/frustration through video games. Most of us do this now as it is, why wouldn't it work for them I say. And if it is a good idea, how to approach the subject to the district in a way they would look at it in a positive light, and prevent them from just going "video games are bad"

[GuiardoTuneweaver]

I think there are too many people out there (NOT including myself) who blame violent children on tv/video game violence for that to be well accepted. If you take your computer experience as an example, some kind of constructive program where they can do something that interests them might be better. For example, an after school program where they could experiment with computer graphics, and the fundamentals of creating a computer game would be better received (and more useful to the kids) than just playing games. (Just think, a whole team creating content for Wiz! =P) Of course, this is only going to be of interest to a subset of the kids, so you'd have to have other programs for other interests. Which leads to the problem of funding and volunteers if you're going to try to help all types of kids. :(

One of my neighbor's kids is involved with a robot building club through school. They got funding from several businesses (to encourage kids to explore engineering). They spend X months building a robot together, then take it to competitions. It has really helped him channel his energy constructively.

[Xardon]

Where have some of the best games come from most times? Look at SoD? Haven't some of the best games we've played been mods of other games? If you expose kids to playing games, and they develop it from there in to concepts, designs, mods ... they could develop something on their own, with support from people who put it together for them. Maybe games can be the link to the kids, if they play games they enjoy, and use their imagination to mod them it could break the barrier. Again it's just a thought ... but with the explosion in the gaming industry, everyone plays games just about, even if it's the online Yahoo game during a lunch break.

[Aneas]

1. Detention
2. Longer detention
3. In-school reassignment (all-day detention away from other students)
4. Suspension (few days)
5. Longer suspension that includes the parents having to pay daily tuition for their child to attend a special school for problem students during the suspension
6. Expulsion


Here's the problem, detention doesn't work because the kids just leave, or they threaten the teachers, etc.
Next step: suspension, unless law enforcement needs to become involved, that is.

Suspension doesn't matter for them because you do that and they are happy, they don't want to be in school to begin with.
Sadly, many view it that way, true. Don't lose sight of the fact that whether or not the student is happy with being suspended is irrelevant. The important thing is putting a stop to their disruptive behavior in school. However, in many cases, suspension is enough to get the parents to finally step up and deal with the kid, especially when they're forced to spring for the high tuition costs of a halfway school.

Expulsion .... can't expel just about everyone.
Sure you can. You can expel everyone who needs it. Honestly though, the actual number that would require expulsion would be fairly low once diciplinary procedures are enforced on a regular basis.

It's getting pretty bad, the kids control the schools now, not the teachers. The teacher's can't even defend themselves anymore without some parent threatening a lawsuit.
No doubt. That is perhaps the biggest part of the problem. We can't give that authority back to the teachers due to those few who would abuse it and those many parents who just can't stand the thought that their child might just need a method of dicipline that they are too weak to administer.

[Aneas]

But what can a Public School District do to *try* to help make things better? I agree with everyone who said the parents have to help, but in this case, the public is blaming the school district. The district is taking a TON of heat because they district cannot say "Parents if you only did your job we wouldn't be in this mess" Of course the district realizes most of the problems stem from the family life, but they cannot change that. Is there *anything* at all, anyone could think of that the district could *try* to do to help make things better? There must be some way to help encourage saftey in schools, get the kids motivated, and get the parents involved in the school "community" (Which right now is pretty non-existent)

Like it or not, it starts with removing the monkey wrenches from the machine. Get the criminal element out of there, as well as anything else that creates nothing but fear and disrespect or otherwise hampers the educational process.

[Allielyn]

Like it or not, it starts with removing the monkey wrenches from the machine. Get the criminal element out of there, as well as anything else that creates nothing but fear and disrespect or otherwise hampers the educational process.

By that you mean harsher expulsion/suspension penalties, right?

[Aneas]

Like it or not, it starts with removing the monkey wrenches from the machine. Get the criminal element out of there, as well as anything else that creates nothing but fear and disrespect or otherwise hampers the educational process.

By that you mean harsher expulsion/suspension penalties, right?
You betcha. Sorry, the metaphor made sense in my head. :P

[Allielyn]

Was just making sure you weren't referring to the teachers that happen to have past criminal records or something. (Theoretically they don't need to be removed, because they aren't *supposed* to be there to start with . . but that's another story.)

[Sanyia]

Easy to blame it on kids, while a lot of parents lets them rot in front of the TV. I don't believe in corporal punishment, but when parents say that they have no clue what their kid is doing or thinking, well, I get really mad. You decided to have a kid because?

Case in question, when some teen goes bonkers and shoots somebody and then they find out he has Nazi posters and crap in his bedroom.

"What? my kid? He was a sweetheart, what about the racist books and weapons. A hate website? Don't all teenagers go through a rebel phase? He's just a kid."

...Yeah right!

No matter what your personal values are you should at least make an effort to communicate with your child and be informed on what's going on.

EDIT: I spel gud

[zodium]

Easy to blame it on kids, while a lot of parents lets them rot in front of the TV. I don't believe in corporal punishment, but when parents say that they have no clue what their kid is doing or thinking, well, I get really mad. You decided to have a kid because?

Case in question, when some teen goes bonkers and shoots somebody and then they find out he has Nazi posters and crap in his bedroom.

"What? my kid? He was a sweetheart, what about the racist books and weapons. A hate website? Don't all teenagers go through a rebel phase? He's just a kid."

...Yeah right!

No matter what your personal values are you should at least make an effort to communicate with your child and be informed on what's going on.

EDIT: I spel gud

I have a confederate flag in my room and I used to run a hate website, plus I have bullet cases lying all around. That doesn't make me a bad person. I'm 18 now, but my parents never interfered much in what I did and I figured most stuff out on my own without turning into a gung ho psycho in a trenchcoat. People seem to be under the impression that everyone who can't vote is a retard. Kids are moldable, sure, but the impression seems to be that kids couldn't form an independent thought if they were paid to do it. That's obviously idiotic. What has happened is a change in society, and it's not as easy as to blame it on the [parents/kids] and say they carry the fault. People in general are becoming more abrasive and likely to give you a piece of their mind, and for some people both grown up and not, a piece of their mind involves violence or threats. The youth in general tend to represent the extremes in our society, so you see it a lot more in them, but most people actually mellow out long before they reach 25. Being fucked up is just part of being a kid today, it doesn't harm you for life and you'll get over it.

[GuiardoTuneweaver]

I have a confederate flag in my room and I used to run a hate website, plus I have bullet cases lying all around. That doesn't make me a bad person. I'm 18 now, but my parents never interfered much in what I did and I figured most stuff out on my own without turning into a gung ho psycho in a trenchcoat.

The vast majority do, but some don't.

People seem to be under the impression that everyone who can't vote is a retard. Kids are moldable, sure, but the impression seems to be that kids couldn't form an independent thought if they were paid to do it. That's obviously idiotic.

The problem is that kid DO form independent thoughs. As with everything else, that results in a vast range of thoughts. And it's the parent/society's job to help mold kids' persepctives which of those thoughts are appropriate to act upon, and which aren't. Most kids will figure that out on their own. Most parents instill the right perspective to help their kids figure it out. It's when you have a kid who won't figure it out in time, combine with parents who don't do their part to help, that you end up with a problem.

but most people actually mellow out long before they reach 25. Being fucked up is just part of being a kid today, it doesn't harm you for life and you'll get over it.

Not if you end up shooting a bunch of other kids, teachers, and yourself. Nobody involved in that ever gets over it. Like you said, most people mellow out, but some don't. Most people aren't the problem; it's the extremes.

[Xardon]

People seem to be under the impression that everyone who can't vote is a retard.

Uh... I think people who CAN vote are retarded ... Bush got re-elected afterall ...

[moghedancarns]

The only reason I do not butcher the people who piss me off and leave their bleeding corpses in the street is... I do not want to go to jail.
People know this, and therefore, feel it is perfectly ok to keep pissing me off.

The state has created a situation in which parents are legally unable to produce the same level of fear in their children.
Therefore, the children have no reason to obey the parent.

The state has created a situation in which school systems are legally unable to produce any level of fear in the students.
Therefore, the children have no reason to obey the system.

Some children have no fear in any case. These are known as pyschopaths and can be dealt with in only one way. The state has made this method legally impossible, so continued efforts of failure remain to "Reform" these people.

The state has created the problem. It is the state's problem. You cannot blame the parents, you cannot blame the schools. The state must solve the problem. You vote for the people in the state. You keep voting for the liberals. YOU are the problem.

Man, liberals piss me off.

[Gea]

Uhu. And where did you learn not to think? :roll:

[Aneas]

The only reason I do not butcher the people who piss me off and leave their bleeding corpses in the street is... I do not want to go to jail.
Please tell my my sarcasm detector is just broken or something. :eek:

[Manluas]

Hmm...I think this problem is directly connected to the parents.

In germany we have the same problems but it don't happen that often. I just finished school 8 month' ago, I've seen pretty much everything on school except murder.
But and that is importatn, at any time something happened nobody blamed the kid/youth but the parents. Since some of them were minor law got the parents because they didn't look over their children properly.
At the schools I've been at (have been plenty since I moved a round a lot) noone did a crime twice. And that is not because they beat up the kids but they got the parents to pay for them or be punished.

If you go back and hurt the parents for the stuff their children do they will maybe want to educate their children in return since most can't stand that for a longer time.

[zodium]

Or, more likely, people will have even fewer children than before, thus worsening the problem of very low birthrates in both the US and Europe. Europe's population is actively declining, while the US is still increasing thanks only to massive immigration. This will especially be true among the more capable members of society who don't want the hassle as it is, and the ones who end up having children will be gun-toting idiots from some backwards state named Cletus.

[Oaju]

I dunno but i do now that my classmates and i do infact swear... However the teachers have complete controll over us and we do learn... you did mention that there isnt such thing as detention... also wrong instead we have ISS (in school suspention), Detention, after school detention, Out of school suspentions etc. One of my friends got ticked one day at a teacher and called him a ass hole but this wasnt left unpunished he was sent to ISS shortly after. He was talked to by some teachers to fix his anger probs and he rarely says anything to any1 that may or may not affend them. If you bring a weapon of any sort to school you will be suspended for i belive 90 days. So i suppose you situation is not a lost cause.

[limitedthoughts]

The problem with school now is simply the fact they have a hands off policy. My son has aspergers syndrom and has a very violent temper in school. The problem is it doesnt deal with Aspergers it deals with his manipulating the system and trying to figure out what he can do and get away with.

His class is scared of him and they have to evaculate the whole freaking class if he starts to act out and the teachers and staff cannot do a single thing to him. I say now days school has just gotten a little to laxed worried about law suits. What happend to the child being put in a corner or told to be quiet instead of disrupting the class.

Its gotta be frusterating that a teacher cannot do anything to the kids / students. That knife thing I read. Heck if the teacher tried to do anything and said sit your A ** down there woulda been a lawsuit from their parents because of the way the teacher acted.

[Oaju]

I agree and this is comming from a student. if a kid knew that he would get the shit beat out of him if he were bad we would be ALOT less tempted to do it. where as now we can put a knife to some guys heart tell em to f*** off and get away with it. And the teachers will b like na i dont wanna go to court its not worth it. And even if they did ingore it they still be in trouble the parents will now complain "Why didnt you help him" your still screwed.Either way your going to go to court.

[Sanyia]

The only reason I do not butcher the people who piss me off and leave their bleeding corpses in the street is... I do not want to go to jail.
People know this, and therefore, feel it is perfectly ok to keep pissing me off.

The state has created a situation in which parents are legally unable to produce the same level of fear in their children.
Therefore, the children have no reason to obey the parent.

The state has created a situation in which school systems are legally unable to produce any level of fear in the students.
Therefore, the children have no reason to obey the system.

Some children have no fear in any case. These are known as pyschopaths and can be dealt with in only one way. The state has made this method legally impossible, so continued efforts of failure remain to "Reform" these people.

The state has created the problem. It is the state's problem. You cannot blame the parents, you cannot blame the schools. The state must solve the problem. You vote for the people in the state. You keep voting for the liberals. YOU are the problem.

Man, liberals piss me off.

No offense, but teaching people to think for themself is more likely to make them reasonable adults than teaching them to fear. Hate and prejudice are rooted in fear. Paranoia is rooted in fear. Teach kids respect, yes, but fear serves no valuable educational purpose.

Obedience through fear.. that thought makes me shudder, there was this kid at my school when I was in second grade, his dad would beat him with the belt and yell at him for minimal infractions. The kid told me that he hated his dad and he wanted to see him dead. Yes he was afraid, yes he would obey his dad, yes he hated his guts.

I don't hate conservatives, in fact I am dating one. Can't say I like what they did to the country in the last few years, tho.

[nihilist326]

i'm all for bringing corporal punishment back. i got whacked when i got out of line and i'm a better person for it. getting hit taught me one thing: being stupid = pain. it also taught me how to take down a grown man when he got out of line :P . the way i see it is that we've been developing our sense of pain for millions of years, so why not use it for something that could be beneficial? just my 2 cents

[Anatole]

My advice? Don't bother preaching to other parents on how to raise their children, your words will fall on deaf ears.

Raise your own kids right, teach them about the dangers of the world, appreciate your children everyday and give them the support they need, when they need it. That's all that is expected of you, and that's all you can do.

[Slippers1]

Basically all this leads me to believe is that the institution of schooling should be abolished. We didn't argue about how wrong or bad violent teens were when it was perfectly reasonable to kill someone because they were in your territory.

[limitedthoughts]

Kids use to respect parents and yes in a way fear them. Mostly the punishment. I dont mean to say beat the child every time but if the teachers cant do a single thing. Even put a child in a corner for being out of line without getting a law suit whats the point now then?

Ever watch the movie the substitute? He put them in line with a little violence.

Get the freatking bad kids out of class even if its mine. Id rather start seeing a better society that works together then this crap.

Hey ... has anyone looked into other countries like Japan or China or Germany or Sweeden?

Whats their policies?

[Anatole]

In my most humble opinion...This isn't fixed by a magic policy, whether it be child beating, inducing fear, whatever. If you want change, it needs to start in the community spirit in general.

Your teachers need to be more confident in their position as a provisional parent, respected and listened to. Teachers need to be backed up by parents, and the institutions within which they work. This is vital. My father taught in a school for a period of time where the standards were SO poor that you were frowned upon by your fellow teachers if you raised concerns over any issue, he was essentially left to his own devices. Student behaviour was shockingly poor, they were health hazards to themselves and others, (playing with lab gas taps, throwing chemicals & solutions around). Of course in the end you end up not teaching, but simply trying to crowd control the class for a few hours, until the period's over.

In some societies this linked relationship between teacher/student/parent has been broken, primarily by state nannyism or overt use of lawsuits, (or perhaps these are just the symptoms of an even worse trend in society?), you simply need to restore it. Give the teachers the support they need, encourage the parents to be proactive in finding solutions, (try and get them involved/interested, invite them along to monthly meetings), and the rest should slowly follow suit.

[DarkUnknownOne]

This thread makes me happy that I haven't been in a Public school in 5 years. When I was back in Public schools(4th-5th grade or so?) Cursing or violence or anything of the sort was immediate Suspension.. This of course led to many people being falsely suspended(Mylsef included) but it kept everyone in line, no matter what. Get a police officer or two in that school with some Pepper Spray or Mace or whatever it's called, and within 1 week everyone will act perfectly well, hopefully with only minor casualties. I, however, do not believe public schools could have gotten close to as bad as you people are making it seem, because every school I've been in in California(One of the worst School systems there) has been pretty well-behaved, and Parents all took severe actions. Wasn't uncommon to see people get suspended/detention and come the next day with bruises.

[Cyrus]

I've been teaching at the high school level for 3 years now. I teach history to students with reading disabilities and I have a few behavior disorder students as well. In my experience a lot of the issues in today's school are a result of parents continued lack of involvement in their child's life and the states continued disempowerment of teachers. The parents along with state and the Federal governments continue to require more qualifications, and training of teachers but they are never willing to increase salaries.... its like Target's motto "Expect more Pay less"

I see school districts that are willing to increase funding to get new gym floors, build a better building, or add more computer labs some how hoping that these increased NEW things will help students turn themselves around. It would be great to see these funds work to improve teacher salaries in an attempt to possibly gain more interest in the profession and make it a viable option for the bread winners of the family to do. Our schools could honestly use more male figures but speaking from experience being a teacher doesn't allow my family to keep warm and eat..... I find it odd that a job that seeks people that love children would provide them with such a tiny salary that would not allow them to provide for children of their own. Ok that's my last complaint on teacher pay.

Detentions, suspension etc are largely the only discipline options teachers have today and with kids that don't care to be at school these just don't work... though Saturday detentions are good provided you can get the kids to show up and if you have faculty that are willing to spend the Saturday at the school without pay. It would be a great move to see school districts attempt to change the involvement of parents by having mandatory Parent Student Seminars, that would cover school rules, expectations etc and have the school faculty on hand to meet, but how do you make parents come.... most likely the only way to do this would be to make some sort of cash incentive like reduced book fees or if their children want to go out for an extra curricular activity you might require attendance.

The community might also start working to implement parenting classes in the area and require that students with X amount of office referrals must attend these classes.

In large we need a society change, we need to get back to a society that respects education and educators... I can't tell you the amount of times I've heard ohhh your just a teacher. In many other countries teachers are greatly respected and honored but in America I don't feel this is the atmosphere. Most of the time on National News or shows like 20/20 all I see about teachers is stories about teachers abusing students, teachers having sex with students or teachers selling drugs.... as a whole it would be great to see more focus on positives than negatives.

Currently the Federal Government has their NO CHILD LEFT BEHIND legislation which SOUNDS GOOD, but in reality this plan calls for school districts to get 100% success on students on standardized test... this means even the kids that show up for 25% of the year must score proficient. This legislation is good in some aspects as it calls for accountability of the teachers, principals, school district but it doesn't mention parents at all in the equation, and maybe its just me but it doesn't make sense to expect such a miracle and include no additional compensation for success.

Well thats my thoughts... Can't really offer a solution but hopefully the country as a whole will begin to recognize this problem and work to correct it.